Intervening With Negligent Parents

[Walkalong]

A delicate situation at best. You could offer the kid a pair of muffs to go over his plugs, but even that could draw the parents ire. It could go either way and would depend greatly on what you say and how you approach it.

Tough call. I would want to help the kid, but would be very careful if I intervened.

I would rather deal with total newbs who just need guidance. They usually appreciate the help etc, but when they don't, just walk off, and no kid left behind.

 

[Lex Luthier]

Often, parents are wrong, and they are as often unwilling to admit it. It really is too bad that kid has to suffer due to poppy's inattention. Perhaps a "Hey, good job kid!" as they are packing up would bolster his attitude. Sometimes it takes an adult outside of the family to be the encourager.

 

[Apple a Day]

+1 what hso said. Consider it a teachable moment. I think a lot of it is in the approach. If you storm in and yell at dad it'll turn ugly but if you approach it as asking him to do you a favor by letting him do something he wants to do anyway...
... as bre'r Rabbit said, "PLEASE, don't throw me in that briar patch!"

 

[hso]

Yeah, it can't be approached as correcting the father in front of the child (or even taking him aside to do it). You're much better off finding an excuse to separate them and teach the kid and let "dad" have some fun where he can "supervise".

 

[Agsalaska]

THe fact that guns are involved does not by itself make it a more volatile situation. That is actually quite a hypocritical position.


That being said, I would not address it at all. Know your place.

 

[Tomcat47]

Although I agree that this is.... or can be a sticky situation, I would have intervened regardless of the fathers attitude.

This is FIREARMS not tiddly winks!.. Carelessness can kill innocent people.

I would have attempted to establish communication with the dad first....

Ooh nice mini 14 ... etc etc. introduce myself, you come here often? And who is this young shooter? Glad to meet you too! This just has to happen, has to be averted in some way.. If there is no range officer, there still has to be range rules, our range also has no RO but has rules posted and in essence those that are using the range are responsible for managing it. If this range did not have written rules disallowing what was occurring....I Would NEVER go to that range again!

Our main range is managed by the county on county property, if there is a problem we are to report it to Sheriffs office, name, tag number etc. they will revoke their permit. So if things went south with dad or he would not listen, I would just gather up my things, get tag etc and leave peacefully.

The .22 rifle jamming would have been a great opportunity to possibly step in.... he was busy... irritable and did not want to mess with it.. Hey, my name is .... blah blah ... you mind if I take a look at that, i am familiar with those, I will help your little man get going...

And hopefully I get him going and give him a pair of muffs which I usually always carry 3 or 4 sets of muffs to the range and like above a .22 rifle and single action revolver too.

 

[buck460XVR]

The situation is dicey, though. Angry dad clearly is in no mood to discuss his kid, and any attempt to intervene is liable to raise his ire. Even without the anger, you are essentially going to be humiliating the parent in front of the child. And that's a dangerous thing to do when the parent is armed. Is there some phrasing or approach folks have used successfully when dealing with this situation?

Dicecy situation it is. A tough call to make without realy being there. One has to defuse and calm the situation before making suggestions for correction. Not only might the irate father take offense to unsolicitated criticism, the boy may also take offense to his dad being critcized. Kids look up to their parents and tend to defend them even when they are wrong. While the father was not being a perfect role model, to his credit he was there spending time with his son promoting the shooting sports. The aknowledgement of this may have been a good way to open the conversation. Then after the waters have been tested, and feathers aren't ruffeled, one can offer to loan a more appropriate gun or bags for the boy to rest his gun on. Regardless, a tough situation at best.

 

[hso]

The assumption that the dad might fly into a homicidal rage and shoot you is pretty far fetched.

We're far more likely to waste the effort and opportunity than get shot.

 

[X-Rap]

And this is all from one mans perspective, not saying he isn't right but everyone takes something different from an encounter. I just believe that unless there is immediate danger to life and limb one should stay away from unsolicited intervention between kids and parents.
It is certainly a domestic issue and those that keep us all herded in a safe direction say that is often a no win situation.

 

[gamestalker]

Having raised a half dozen kids, and knowing just how frustrated a parent can get doing so, I would be inclined to approach with a smile and attempt to strike up a friendly gun related chat session, making friends so too speak. And then using good communication skills, I would try to inject myself into their recreational session by simply asking if I could let Jr. try out my Marlin 60, or what ever might help alleviate some of the issue. And then ask him if he wants to try on a set of my ear muffs to see how well they control the loud report. And I would try to keep on track with the whole recreational experience by getting Dad's attention with some firearm talk, what we like to shoot, and keeping comments in the mix like, " It's so wonderful to see a Dad and Son spending quality time together shooting their guns" , " And it brings back so many great memories I have of doing, what your doing with your Boy". Maybe ask Dad if he wants to try one of my guns too. There are ways to approach situations like this without causing tempers to flare up. The Dad might even appreciate the help of someone else, because it allows him some time to focus on his day at the range with a bit less time being demanded of him by his Son. I remember those days with my kids. Honestly, I would not get very much time to myself when taking them fishing or shooting with me, and I did get frustrated at times because I didn't get my day of recreation as I had hoped to. And who knows, a friendly interaction may lead to making a new friend too.

GS

 

[Cosmoline]

It seems to me I could have simply offered to give my station up to his son. I hadn't thought of that before, but it would have also given me the chance to keep an eye on the kid and offer some proper oversight (ie going over basic safety, loading one bullet at a time, a rest for the heavy firearm, much closer target, explanation of how the sights work, etc)

 

[TenDriver]

Call me young and dumb, but I'd get involved. I'd likely ask the dad if they would both be interested in shooting some my junk (probably after introducing a conversation about the Mini, or whatever else they had on their bench). If the dad was receptive, I'd probably let him crack off my M1 a couple of times. Maybe the kid too. I'd offer the kid whatever low to no recoil firearm I had with me and if it fit, offer to let him take it back to his bench with a box of ammo if everything stayed positive.

Y'all are dead on about the bad parenting aspect. I've seen it at a range with a kid who was too young in my opinion to be there. Dad / stepdad / mom's boyfriend cussed out what looked to me like a 4 or 5 year old. Completely lost his cool, repeatedly. I invited him over to our bench and occupied his time for a while with some big bore stuff while mom stayed at their bench and shot 22s with the kids. They ran out, I walked another 100 over there. Cost me around $70 in ammo, but money well spent to get the kids a break.

Most people at a range who are acting poorly can have their attention diverted toward a firearm they don't usually shoot, at least for a little while. Might cost you a few bucks in ammo, but ammo was meant to be shot.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Get another job. You're going to have to pay for "it" one way or another.

 

[X-Rap]

It's impossible to put your self into the mind of the topic parent but I do try in most instances to try to have a viewpoint from who I am interacting with. That said I would personally be concerned with some of the posters in this thread having such interest in my child, that comes from a protective father not one who we are discussing as being negligent. Just a thought.

 

[Potatohead]

Having raised a half dozen kids, and knowing just how frustrated a parent can get doing so,

^^^^^^no doubt

Sometimes i see these "kid beaten by parent at Wal Mart" videos, and im thinkin- that kid mighta needed a good whoopin. Sometimes you dont make good contact on the first couple swings of the spank and you have to take another couple, kinda looks like your wailing on them or something. You know, no abuse for sure, but folks are pretty sensitive these days it seems..if im giving my kids a spanking, they needed a good one.

Not advocating child abuse here and i think that was off topic too. Just something my wife and i talk about sometimes. Parent should get the benefit of the doubt? (edit-not when theyre being unsafe with firearms though)

 

[mgmorden]

I'm going to take a mostly opposite stance myself from most.

It sounds like the kid was having trouble shooting, but nothing truly unsafe was being done - ie, no sweeping or anything. Muzzle control wasn't mentioned. Kid was "just" wearing plugs but realistically a lot of people don't double-up on hearing protection - particularly on an outdoor range.

My guess is that had one intervened there would be a counter-thread somewhere on some internet forum by a guy talking about how he was taking his son out shooting and some tactical mall ninja couldn't help but try to correct how his son was shooting (not saying that's the case - I'm just saying that each side of a story has a viewpoint - accurate or not).

In general - a man and his children, wife, girlfriend, etc, I leave alone at the range unless something blatantly unsafe is occurring. Like it or not, most people are going to take it as a slight. Some with calmer personalities will brush it off, but some are going to get defensive.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Dads are not always wise, they are sometimes just there. I see a number of parenting techniques that... well, Sister Beatrice told me if I don't have anything nice to say then say nothing at all.

But, this is still a free society and one of the hardest and frustrating parts of freedom is the duty to allow others to do things you don't particularly approve of. If possible let the young boy know you are available for lessons but otherwise take a Rolaids and let it go.