Introducing your kids to guns - request

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Nicky@Ten

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Hi THR users.

I'm an Australian based TV news producer (network ten), and we're thinking about doing a story looking at gun safety.

One of the angles we'd like to look at is how parents introduce their kids to guns.

I've seen the NRA's Eddie the Eagle campaign, and was wondering if any of the THR users, who've had to tackle this issue might be willing to chat with us.

Australia doesn't really have any kind of mainstream firearms culture, so to us, the second amendment is a fascinating part of your constitution.

Would anyone be interested in chatting to us about this?

Thanks for your time.

Cheers

Nicky
 
My wife and I just bought our 4 year old a very light powered airsoft colt 1911 for Christmas. he is only allowed to handle it at the range and he must observe the 4 rules all the time or it is taken away.
 
Each of our boys got a Chipmunk rifle the day they were born, and as soon as they were big enough to start handling them, they were heavily encouraged to do so.

By the time they fired their first live rounds at 4, they had fired thousands of "rounds" in dry fire on the living room floor in dry fire practicing with me (I was shooting a lot of high power back then, and was always dry firing myself).

I also always encouraged them to look at and handle anything I might have had out, and we always discussed proper safety and etiquette, as well as how things worked.

Once they started shooting, we always shot once or twice a week well into their teens, and we still shoot together on a fairly regular basis now that they are adults.

If you start them as soon as possible, and explain things in a calm and intelligent manner, you'll have no troubles with your kids and guns. Its other peoples kids, as well as adults, that tend to be the problem. Waiting until they are older isnt a good idea, as by then, they will have already been exposed to the wrong influences like TV and movies, and like anything that might hurt them, you need to educate them and explain things early, and not just tell them NO. They arent dumb, unless you make them that way.
 
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Started my kids out on pellet guns....let them tag along on range and hunting trips. In Colorado, they couldn't get a youth liscense till 16. They graduated to 22's at about 8-9 years old. All the while, I instilled in them that a gun is an inert piece of steel and wood....by it's self, it will do nothing....it depends on the person that is holding it! After the usual Hunter Safety Course.
Results, they became hunting and shooting partners...I trust their knowledge and safety totally.
Dan
 
At the age of 6, each of my boys was introduced to shooting with a Marlin youth .22 single shot rifle. Safety, safety, safety was the constant theme and they knew if they wanted to shoot (and they did), that disobeying the rules meant they weren't going to. As they grew up, I NEVER had to worry about the handgun in the nightstand as they knew gun safety, they knew to NEVER tell their friends or try to show it off, and now - 15-20 years later, I just used that same rifle to introduce my grandson to shooting
 
Hi THR users.

I'm an Australian based TV news producer (network ten), and we're thinking about doing a story looking at gun safety.

One of the angles we'd like to look at is how parents introduce their kids to guns.

I've seen the NRA's Eddie the Eagle campaign, and was wondering if any of the THR users, who've had to tackle this issue might be willing to chat with us.

Australia doesn't really have any kind of mainstream firearms culture, so to us, the second amendment is a fascinating part of your constitution.

Would anyone be interested in chatting to us about this?

Thanks for your time.

Cheers

Nicky

What would you like to know, exactly?

A list of questions might be in order so that we can determine what exactly you are interested in learning or in what direction you're trying to guide this debate towards. The posting you have here on THR leaves open many different questions ranging from culture, individual parenting, history, etc... Even questioning our sanity here in the states, cause who would let their children anywhere near such a dangerous thing as a firearm. Right?

I think before any of us go to far in answering any of your questions, maybe in good faith you should provide a link to your station and provide proof of your status. Don't take this the wrong way, but this is after all the internet and we only have your word that this is for a gun safety story?

Clarence
 
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Sure..... I'll talk/e-mail.

After marrying a lady who was some what neutral (leaning towards anti) about guns that was raised in an anti (leaning towards neutral) family... I have raised a now 21 yr old daughter.

PM me if your interested.
 
Well, we took our three kids, their spouses and our nine grandkids on a shooting holiday at the NRA Whittington Center in October for our 40th anniversary. Does that count? (We have plenty of pictures too.)

Like the others, I want to know what your motives and direction are before subjecting any of my family to the media.

Your turn.
 
Sure - the only reason I didn't post before is because sometimes forums immediately ban links if they think they're spam.

This is our network

http://ten.com.au/

and this is the show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maq8tDjHhek

my email is [email protected]

you can also call me directly on

+61296501301.

We haven't launched yet, so I'm just doing some preliminary research into interesting features we could go and cover in the States - and this, I think, would be a good one.

In terms of questions - I guess a good starting pt would be why do you own firearms - is it for sport, protection, culling pests?

Did you grow up with them?

Is gun ownership just a traditional part of life in the US?

How much of a concern was gun safety when you started a family?

When you hear about shooting accidents involving kids, what's your first response and do you think more could be done to prevent these types of incidents?
 
Hey Nick - welcome to THR. :)

As for your questions:

My wife and I own firearms for sport and protection. We target shoot, and keep a firearm at home in case of trouble. If the state we live in allowed us to CCW (carry a concealed weapon) we would do so as well.

I personally did not grow up with firearms in the house. My parents weren't necessarily anti-gun, it just wasn't part of our family culture, if that makes any sense. My father and I would go target shooting from time to time when I was a kid. I had an interest from a fairly young age, and had the odd pellet gun until I was old enough to use a real one responsibly. My dad bought me my first gun (a .22 rifle) at about age 14.

As far as gun ownership being a traditional part of American life...well, firearms were instrumental in the creation and early defense of our country, so the answer would have to be yes. I think that part of why we have hung onto gun ownership as a nation has a lot to do with that early struggle for freedom, and an instinct, for lack of a better word, to enjoy and maintain it.

Gun safety is always a concern. I don't have children, but when my wife and I first met, she had never even seen a real gun. Her "introduction" to guns and gun safety came about when she pointed a pellet gun at me one day and I flipped out. My reaction scared her, and the following explanation of why I flipped out - that you NEVER point a gun, toy or not at someone unless you're prepared to hurt them - opened her eyes. She attended a gun safety course the next weekend, and shortly thereafter became a gun owner herself.

When I hear about shooting accidents involving kids, my first reaction is frustration. It's so easy to keep kids safe around guns, it's almost laughable - but so many keep getting hurt.

First, kids need to be taught about guns. Kids play with guns because many times they're mystical, forbidden objects only adults get to touch. If they're taught about them, shown how they work and warned how they can be very dangerous if touched or handled improperly, kids will get the idea and generally leave them alone.

Following that, the obvious answer is to secure them in such a way that a child could not access them without adult supervision. Most of the time this involves some sort of safe or lock box, as trigger locks on their own have generally been proven easily defeatable by relatively simple tools and a little determination.

I'll stop here - I'm sure you've got enough to read already. Hope this helps!
 
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all good questions,

i grew up with guns as my father was an avid hunter. my brothers and I were all given guns for Christmas and birthdays etc when we were deemed competent enough to use them safely. if my father felt that we were unsafe then there is no way we would have got guns.

as far as gun ownership being a tradition, i would say that it is a right to U.S. citizens that we choose to exercise.

i currently have firearms for all the categories that you listed as well as hunting (unless hunting fits in the category of culling pests).
 
Welcome to the forum ! Glad to hear young people from Australia
are interested in firearms and it's culture. I'm over 60 years old
and am retired. My father was a NRA safety instructor when I was
a kid. He grew up with guns and his father was a hunter from Canada.
My son and daughter are both shooters.

For many of us, it's a family tradition. Then there are the various
wars that we were all involved with. (More firearms tradition.)

I live near Fairbanks Alaska. Firearms are a part of life here. The
local high schools have rifle teams, as does the University.

You could google up Lathrop High School, West Valley High School,
and Delta Junction High School. Then you could contact them and
ask other young people how they interact with their guns. The
University of Alaska, Fairbanks rifle team has kids 18 to 24 that
would chat with you.

Good luck with your project.
 
Nicky, I would be happy to answer any questions you have about my experiences learning of firearm safety, and how I taught my son. I was started at 5 by my father with a bb gun. The basic rules of keep your finger off the trigger, keep it pointed in a safe direction, and dont point it at anything that you shouldn't, or that isnt safe were taught with it. At age 8 I started shooting a 22lr Marlin semi-auto. At 11 my dad bought me a 12ga shotgun, a Winchester 1300. I come from a hunting family, everything from squirell to deer. I spent most of my teenage years with my friends in the woods hunting something.

When my son turned 6 I bought him a bb gun, the same model I had as a youth. My state also has a hunter safety course that is offered. I took my son to this course the summer he turned 9. Its a two day, 8 hr a day class. He scored a perfect score on the 50 question test at the end, I was one proud dad. He was then eligible for a hunting license. That christmas I bought him a youth model shotgun. I have since taught him to use a single action revolver in 22lr. He can safely load, fire, and unload. This christmas he recieved a 22lr AR15.

When introduced at a young age, and taught responsibility with the firearm, a pretty young child can be perfectly safe. Several of my friends have went shooting at our club with us and commented "I feel safer with your 10 year old shooting next to me than most of the guys that were at the range." That makes a dad feel good. If you do make it the US, I would be honored to take you to my range and let you shoot anything in my collection.
 
Nicky@Ten welcome to THR; one of the best places for firearm questions and answers.
To answer your question, I grew up in a neutral house. Until both my brother and I could safely handle firearms they where banned. At the age of 7 we where introduced to pellet guns, at 10 we moved to .22 lr (Marlin model 60) for my brother and a Ruger Standard .22 lr for me at age 11. Both of our guns did double duty as home protection and plinking instruments. Mine however saw a lot more use than my brothers because I chose to spend my allowance on ammo, which was $0.39/50 back in the late 70s early 80s. We where raised to respect the firearm as a tool of the user.
I am now a single parent of an 8 yo daughter, she helps me load shells and occassionally asks to go with me to the range. I take her and she shoots my favorite .22 WMR like a champ, outshooting most adult guys at the range...(sniff) I am so proud!
She occassionally asks to look at my weapons and I always clear 2Xs before letting her handle one and she knows not to touch unless dad says its ok and safe.
 
Nick I have read that there is a push to allow the people to own pump shotguns again there .Do you believe that the people should ? Your country use to have gun rights ,so where do you stand ?
 
Sounds legitimate, if you want to contact me by email or pm, I'll be happyu to try to answer your questions.
Dan
 
Nicky, I would help provide one viewpoint for you.

When you hear about shooting accidents involving kids, what's your first response and do you think more could be done to prevent these types of incidents?

Having five children, and having just experienced the death of a close family member last week from an accidental discharge of a firearm (my 54 year old uncle; alcohol was a factor), I can say with certainty that this question has recently come to the forefront of my thoughts.

Accidental deaths involving firearms can be prevented with proper gun handling procedures. Learning proper gun handling procedures requires training - and not just training of the adults, but of all family members in the residence.

Loaded firearms should not be kept tucked away in "secret", because children are prone to curiosity. If there are loaded firearms in the house, all members of the family should be aware of them. Children should be made aware of what firearms are capable of doing from the earliest age. Not just your children, mind you, but visitors as well, who become your responsibility when they are in your residence. People who are not prepared to have gun safety dialog with their children's friends (and parents), need to make the choice to unload and lock them up while they are present, or simply not have those children come over to visit, but rather, have our children go to their houses' to visit.

While all weapons should be treated as if they are loaded, keeping weapons in a state of readiness for self-defense purposes decidedly raises the bar on safety measures which must be observed. If a weapon is kept in a loaded state for immediate use in a self defense situation, a great deal of extra caution must be observed. A weapon with an unloaded magazine takes more time, and conscious "steps", to prepare and fire, than a weapon with a round in the chamber. It also means that a baseball bat or kitchen knife is effectively more useful for defense purposes, because an unloaded / locked up weapon is useless for defense purposes, and an intruder is highly unlikely to give you the time and space required to ready yourself.

This being said, there's a large number of accidents each year from weapons which were thought to be unloaded, but were not. All weapons are always loaded (even if they aren't). It's akin to the concept of doublethink in Orwell's 1984. We train ourselves, and those we teach, to believe that all weapons are always loaded. This changes the way we perceive, and handle those objects we know as firearms.

In my house, we have a mix of ages on my five children from 5 years to 13 years. Weapons are kept well out of reach until the children are old enough to understand, and have reached a level of understanding, involving the basics of firearm safety. Some of the rules we live by are common sense - children are not left unattended at our residence for any length of time. Either my wife, or I, are always present, or if we are to go out, a babysitter who is over 18 and trained in firearms handling. It's a concession we make in our lives - there's no "just stepping out for a minute" without an adult to watch over the young ones.

At least twice a year we load up all of our children (regardless of age) and go to the shooting range for live fire. The noise of firearms discharging is quite shocking to small children, and serves to dispel a great deal of the negative curiosity. We typically will fire at things which are reactive - soda cans, and so on, and during cold-range cease fires we all go down as a group and inspect what has happened to the targets that have been shot. The one point to get across to children during these exercises is quite simply that firearms are dangerous, and they are not toys. For our small children, the number one rule is if you see a firearm, or a bullet, or something that looks like a firearm, do not touch it but come tell an adult! We make sure they understand this applies not just while they are at our house, but if they are at a friends house as well.

When my children are old enough to begin learning about firearms handling, I start taking them to the range for instruction. Both of my older boys (11 and 13) can handle weapons, but this requires close supervision. We go together on days when the range is mostly or completely empty, to avoid or reduce any potential distractions. Every step along the way is explained, and we go through procedures over, and over, and over again. A proper training regimen requires repetition of the correct procedures.

All of the deaths from accidental firearms discharges involving children, where the firearm is in a child's hand, stems from two related things - lack of training and negative curiosity. If you dispel the negative curiosity at a young age, and do some fundamental training, then "unexpected discoveries" children may make of firearms are done with respect, and not "oooh what's this".

With respect to violence for older children, and "non-accidental" shootings at school or on the street, such a conversation involves felonious criminal behavior, and is a different subject entirely from firearms safety in the home.

With respect to control measures:

Locking up weapons is not a solution or "cure". Last time I checked, even my five year old can use a key.

Keeping weapons unloaded is not a "cure". All firearms are always loaded. People that come to my house know this, and they will not pick up a firearm. If people think firearms are unloaded they may casually handle them and - if one IS loaded - there may be an accident. I would rather ALL firearms be treated as loaded, and every person know they are loaded, because then no one will idly handle them. Hence the Orwellian doublethink - all firearms are always loaded.

Restricting ownership is not a "cure". Regardless of what legislature does, firearms have been pervasive on this planet since the invention of gunpowder. They are not going away - ever - regardless of how much legislature or wishful thinking is poured out of people's hearts.

Proper training and procedures is a "cure".

My e-mail is trent [at] liberationsoft.com if you have other questions.
 
Good Morning.
Let me start off with that I used some of the advice from Massad Ayoobs excellent book, "Gun Proof Your Children". I removed the mystery from my son from Day 1. He knows where the firearms are, and that he may ask to see/handle one under adult supervision. This Christmas just past he received his first firearm, a CZ Scout 452 22lr bolt action rifle, which is also stored in the safe. He has not fired it yet, but has been answering all the safety questions perfectly - he might actually get range time this afternoon.;)
In terms of questions - I guess a good starting pt would be why do you own firearms - is it for sport, protection, culling pests?
No pests, I started at age 9, shooting for sport. When I was 16 I began legally carrying a firearm in AZ, and have done so ever since.

Did you grow up with them?
Yes.
Is gun ownership just a traditional part of life in the US?
Absolutely.
How much of a concern was gun safety when you started a family?
My wife and I are both shooters, so when we child proofed the house against common childhood issues, like drawer/cabinet locks, corner protectors, electrical socket plugs, making sure unused firearms were locked in the safe was simply one more step, nothing major. Once when we were looking into adoption/fostering, one interviewer stated I would have to get rid of everything but my duty sidearm, and that would have to be kept across the street, disassembled. We politely showed her the door.
When you hear about shooting accidents involving kids, what's your first response and do you think more could be done to prevent these types of incidents?
First, there are very few accidental shootings, most are actually negligent as simple attention to safety could have saved lives/trauma. This is the same as many other household items known for unnecessary deaths/injury such as swimming pool fences, locking up poisons, making sure your children are seat belted in your vehicle or in approved car seats/booster seat placed properly. As for what more could be done, absolutely and here in Arizona we have a program called the Arizona Gun Safety Program, an optional public school class offered as an elective, with safe discharge of a firearm at a target on an approved range is a requirement to graduate. I don't know how many schools have picked it up, but I hope to see it listed as an elective in every high school, as mandatory as Sex Ed and Drivers Ed. Better even to do it in Jr High. You can find the particulars listed in Arizona Revised Statutes, at azleg.gov.
In addition to that, the NRA offers many excellent programs, (I took the Hunter Safety Course at age 10, many moons ago), and most public or private ranges, (of which AZ has many), also offer shooting classes, which always include safety as a main topic.
I hope that helped.
armoredman from czforum.com :)
 
Armoredman, you made good points about gun training in schools. Here in Illinois there's a "zero tolerance" policy where children are not allowed to talk about or even draw pictures of firearms, with the penalties to the extreme - expulsion is the norm.

I have tried making the argument to schools that by NOT teaching gun safety, and putting such a negative connotation on firearms, they are putting children at risk, but it's fallen on deaf ears.

Firearms are mechanical devices which require safety measures for proper use, no different than automobiles. There have been zero children killed by firearms in our county as far back as I can remember, but back in 2007 alone, there were *thirteen* students killed in vehicle accidents at the local high school. This sad fact hasn't changed much over the years. When I was in school some 20+ years ago, I personally lost several friends to vehicle accidents.

There's no outrage about letting a child drive a 3,000 pound bullet down the road, but my children can't so much as talk about going hunting with dad at recess. Go figure.
 
Nicky,

Take a good look at accidental deaths involving firearms in the US and compare them to other accidental death rates such as drowning, motor vehicle accidents, falls, etc. I think you'll find that accidental death numbers involving firearms are considerably lower than others.

On the other hand they are reported in the news with greater emphasis because much of the mainstream media has become anti-gun so these stories allow fire for their cause.

Those in the US that have not been exposed to firearms in their youth often grow up with the idea (concious or unconcious) that firearms are only used by criminals and law enforcement due to their exposure to mainstream media.

If you have dangerous things in/around your house (automobiles, swimming pools, knifes, electricity, firearms, etc) it's the parents job to make sure precautions and education of the child takes place. If my kid gets in my car and pops it out of gear and runs over my other kid no one is going to say automobiles should be banned. They won't blame the automobile. When there is a firearms accident it's not the firearm to blame. It's the parents and the lack of protection and education the parents provided to the child.

Why have firearms? Lots of reasons including recreation, hunting, protection from animals, self defense from criminals, collecting, etc. Excersizing the right is reason enough.

Most all firearm owners will agree that so called "gun-control" laws are a complete infringement of our rights and completely ineffective at preventing crime. Any law that prevents or makes it difficult for citizens to own firearms only hurts the honest citizens who want to use it for protection or sporting purposes. Criminals don't obey laws (duh...that's why they are criminals by definition!). Criminals will have guns...if lawmakers make laws that restrict gun ownership they are restricting it from honest citizens...not the criminals.

Introducing guns to children as early as possible will prevent firearm-related accidental deaths. Young children must not be able to have access to firearms. As they get old enough and responsible enough (each child is different obviously) they can be introduced to shooting under controlled environments. Once the mystic of firearms is gone children will be less likely to try to mess with them and they will treat them as they should...a powerful tool that must be respected.

Safety, safety, safety with kids.

Hope that helps.
 
Is it for sport, protection, culling pests?

All 3, though the third was not intentional. I am the third generation in my family to compete on a collegiate rifle team (Grandfather University of Maine, Mother Wake Forest, father and myself NC State University). Also, my parents were the coaches of the NC State rifle team for many years (father head coach 75-90, mother assistant 75-99). My childhood memories are of family trips to rifle matches all over the country.

My mother gave me a handgun for my 21st birthday and I received my Concealed Carry Weapons permit shortly thereafter. I work at a public park, so I cannot carry on a daily basis, but do leave two handguns ready on opposite ends of my house. When I travel, I keep one close in my car.

Pests are not a real problem for me living in the city, but I have used my Red Ryder BB gun to get rid of a rabid squirrel and scare off a few raccoons.


Did you grow up with them?

Answered above.


Is gun ownership just a traditional part of life in the US?

Absolutely. My family still owns a number of family firearms we no longer use from the service revolver and Japanese rifle brought back from WWII to my great grandfather's sidearms as a ship's captain in WWI, but capped off by the family's Brown Bess made in the 1760s we have on display at the National Firearms Museum


How much of a concern was gun safety when you started a family?

I have not got around to starting a family yet, but my family actually did little to separate gun from me. For as long as I remember, I knew where the .22s were kept, not locked up, and only 3ft from the 100,000 rounds of match ammo we kept stocked up. Also for as long as I remember, my parents drilled gun safety into my head. I actually did Boy Scout service hours working at the Eddie Eagle booth at the NRA Annual meeting in Philadelphia when I was 13/14ish. However, they did keep secret where the handguns in the house were, and to this day I don't know where they kept them (I'm 25 now).


When you hear about shooting accidents involving kids, what's your first response and do you think more could be done to prevent these types of incidents?

Accidents happen when the safety rules aren't followed, plain and simple. Blaming the child or the parents is a moot point by then. I used to run a junior marksmanship program (10-21 year olds) which produced many Junior Olympians, collegiate shooters who have earned over $40,000 in college scholarships, a half dozen National Records, a 14 and under Junior Olympic Champion. When these kids go to the county range to practice, the range officers out there know who they are and put them on the far end of the range. Not because they want to keep an eye on them, but because they know the kids are the safest shooters on the range at the time because of how much I and the other coaches stressed gun safety. The range officers leave the kids under the supervision of their parents and spend their time keeping the adults from causing an accident. If you emphasize it enough, it sets in.
 
Hi young man my name is rifle pleased to meet you,

Hi Mr. Rifle glad to be introduced to you.....
 
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