Investing in arms.

[Commissar Gribb]

hey! this is my first post here so here goes...

Lately, considering the seemingly never- ending increases in anti-gun legislation, I've been thinking about starting to invest in weapons to collect on the inevitable increases in price.

Just looking at the way a very cheap weapon such as a NFA chinese AKM can skyrocket in a matter of 20 years seems like reason enough. In the event that we see a repeat of the '94 ban or similar, I think it will be worth it.

I'd been really looking into AKM or SKS style weapons. Surplus Semi autos, extra parts and magazines and of course ammo for the long haul.

my plan is it maybe start out with a dozen or so, lock them in a crate packed in peanuts or something.

Any suggestions?

 

[jdberger]

Buy Colts.

But seriously, MilSurp isn't a big payoff investment.

BTW, peanuts are BAD. They hold moisture. Moisture means rust.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

colts? ughh! I hope you meant horses.

I didnt say I was trying to lose all my money on 3 or 4 rifles!

the peanuts were an example. I'd probably have em in sealed bags with dessicant. peanuts are just very good shock absorbers. brown paper packing is very good in that department also and less messy so I may go with that.

 

[whm1974]

You can also get burnt badly. Keep in mind that quite a few people lost money on pre ban guns and mags after the AWB expired.

An older guy at work wanted to sell his folding stock AK for $700, and ketp telling me it is worth that much because it's preban. He was shocked after I told him that AKs go for ~$300, and that new folding stocks are legal now.

I can't see how he didn't know that the AWB expired. Every news outlet was screeming how "machine guns" are going to fill the streets...

-Bill

 

[ksnecktieman]

Any investment has it's risks. In the past most guns have appreciated in value. But, would you like to have a store room full of guns if California style legislation sweeps the country? It might happen that laws are passed that you can not sell them. It might happen that laws pass that you can not own them. The anti gun politicians may get a law passed that you have to pay a yearly tax on any guns you own. Would you like to pay a tax of ten percent of their value every year, in the name of "the children's safety", of course.

If you purchase and store a large quantity of guns (30 each of similar models?), with plans of future sale, I hope you got yourself a federal firearms dealers license. If not you might get arrested as a "straw purchaser" or for dealing firearms without a license. That would mean you are now a felon, and confiscation or them, and no more right to own firearms.

Who knows, worst case is the feds will pump your house full of cs gas, knock down the walls, and accidentally ignite it.

 

[whm1974]

The anti gun politicians may get a law passed that you have to pay a yearly tax on any guns you own. Would you like to pay a tax of ten percent of their value every year, in the name of "the children's safety", of course.

If you purchase and store a large quantity of guns (30 each of similar models?), with plans of future sale, I hope you got yourself a federal firearms dealers license. If not you might get arrested as a "straw purchaser" or for dealing firearms without a license

How would they collect the tax?

If you are going to buy firearms as an investment, buy the ones you will enjoy having or shooting.

And yes alway be careful on how many guns you buy or sell, even with private partys.

-Bill

 

[Redlg155]

How would they collect the tax?

That question is exactly why so many of us are against registration of firearms. Registration is only a means of control for either confiscation or taxation if the govt should so decide.

There are many pitfalls to purchasing firearms for investment purposes. As stated previously, many folks lost money on pre ban firearms. At the same time, some were able to recoup part of their investment by selling to those states that still had their own version of the crime bill. This loss is not restricted to just AR style weapons. Lots of folks lost money when the market was flooded by milsurps that had previously commanded high prices.

However, I would say a safe bet would be to purchase AR style rifles or lower recievers. You can get a name brand stripped lower for a little over $100 and buid it up at your leisure, or buy complete lowers for a little more. Just about everyone can afford a couple of lower recievers. You can always get uppers and parts.

In most states where a specific firearm is no longer deemed "safe" for the general public to own, there is usually a grandfather clause included to let you keep your weapon. Either that or store/sell them to someone in a "FREE" state.


Good Shooting
Red

 

[sturmruger]

I think you would be a lot better off with investing in the Stock market. There are too many unknowns to invest in firearms.

 

[boofus]

If you buy guns hoping they will go up in price so you can sell it later, doesn't that technically mean you are buying/selling guns for a profit? Can't the ATF construe some kind of argument that you would need a FFL for this type of collecting?

I buy all my NFA guns cause they are fun to shoot, at least that's what I will say if I ever get questioned.

 

[bad LT]

Investing means you are planning on selling the guns at some point. I personally would use that line as an excuse to buy more guns.

 

[Gunnutz13]

My advice to you...

....forget the guns....screw the stock market....BUY LAND !!

 

[patent]

I think you would be a lot better off with investing in the Stock market. There are too many unknowns to invest in firearms.​

The stock market has more than a little bit of uncertainty too. You can't tell me that there are stocks guarnateed to go up in price any more than there are guns that are guaranteed to go up in price. For guns, you have lots of worries about legislation and stuff like that. For stocks you still have worries about legislation killing an industry or crippling a company, but you also have worries about fraud at the company, vicious lawsuits, changing markets and a whole host of other factors. Worse, in stocks you hold a piece of paper, not the actual thing.

I'm not suggesting getting out of stocks and putting your nest egg in guns. I haven't and won't do that. I do prefer to be diversified though, and have some stocks, some land, and am now starting to look at putting a small portion (0.5%) of my liquid portfolio into firearms. I'd also look at precious metals, but for my purposes I've found that I can do that better with stocks right now.

All these things have some uncertainty, and some risk.

patent

 

[kfranz]

Any suggestions?

Buy low, sell high....

If it floats your boat, have at it say I. There are worse and less useful ways to loose money. The reason for the runup in NFA values is the fixed supply. Even with the 89 and 94 stupidity, we never had a fixed supply of any of the items that were meant to be banned.

 

[jobu07]

....forget the guns....screw the stock market....BUY LAND !!

That is sound advice. Guns are still made, stocks are widely available. Land however, the big guy quit making a long time ago.

 

[jdberger]

colts? ughh! I hope you meant horses.

Yeah, Colts...not new ones, neat old ones.

Here is an example for you, you could have bought a NIB Colt SAA in the early 1900s for a $20 gold piece. To buy the same gun now would cost you at least 4.

BUY LAND!!

They sure aren't making anymore of that...(and you don't need an FFL)

 

[cheese]

Hey Maybe You Can Make A Buck Off Your Brother Some Other Way, But Buying To Jus' Sell For A Profit Sucks.

 

[jdberger]

But Buying To Jus' Sell For A Profit Sucks

New economic system, for those who haven't been paying attention...Capitalism.

 

[cheese]

Sorry Bout That Mis Communication Jdberger But Buying Guns Jus' To Sell For Profit Sucks, You Holdin Ffl? He Holdin Ffl?

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'm sure there are guns that make excellent investments; I'm equally sure I would take them to the range and shoot them.

 

[patent]

Sorry Bout That Mis Communication Jdberger But Buying Guns Jus' To Sell For Profit Sucks,​

OK, I'm going to admit this makes no sense to me. There is no moral reason that people should only buy guns to use or to sell at a loss. Buying to sell for profit is exactly what firearms dealers do, they buy guns from the manufacturer, and hope to sell them to us at a profit. Are you saying this sucks? I don't see how, as without that profit thing I'd find it hard to get guns.

Does it suck only if an individual gunowner does it? First, I see no reason why we should be wholly dependant on corporations, and I prefer to deal with individuals where possible. Second, my FFL does this for me, and I thank him for it. It would be very strange to criticize that.

Frankly, I think the rest of us are better off if people buy guns as investments for profit than if they don't. Doesn't matter to me if they hold them short term or long term.

Lets say he goes and buys 100 colts. Are you harmed somehow? 20 years from now when colt or whomever decides to stop making firearms for the public as we are too much of a nuisance, you will at least have someone you can buy them from. He may make a profit, but at least you have one source for them, compared to no sources.

That makes you better off than if he hadn't bought them, as there are going to be more guns in good condition available to honest buyers from an honest source. I just don't see anything wrong with that. All I can see in your objection is that you don't want him making a profit off you, but I think that this is selfishness and it fogs your analysis of the situation. Don't begrudge a guy a profit, its silly.


patent

 

[ksnecktieman]

WHM1974,,, How would they collect the tax? Not a very big problem. President Hillary, elected in 2008, with a Democratic congress behind her, executes an "executive order" (Is that the proper term?) she declares a one time tax on all firearms of ten percent of their original purchase price. Since she has not YET, created and implemented a registration program, she requires that all FFLs immediately send in copies of the yellow sheets for ALL previous purchases. ( For TAX purposes only of course.How many firearms have you purchased from dealers in the past? Are you aware that the dealer is required to keep those yellow sheets as long as he is in business?). The new "BOF" (Burea Of Firearms, also created by executive order) Instantly has total registration. You choice is to pay a ten percent tax, or come up with a name of who you sold it to. (ANY paperwork dishonesty is a federal felony, of course.) By the end of 2009, ownership of any firearm that tax has not been paid on is a felony, if it is found in your possesion.

And the general public accepts it,,, because??? "It is for the children". Suzy Soccermom will look down her nose at anyone that objects to a tax that is "for the children".... And the tough part? We are mostly good people here, most of us would accept a ONE TIME tax on our guns, if it DID REALLY help our children.

AND THE NEXT YEAR? SORRY GUN OWNERS, THERE HAVE BEEN MORE CHILDREN BORN SINCE LAST YEAR,, more schools, better teachers, health care, prenatal care, etc. ad infinitum.

I love metafors, so I will close with, The wolf is not at the door. He is partially inside, but he is not in far enough to crap inside yet, he is still dumping on the porch.

NO, I do not wear a tinfoil hat, I tossed it, and got me a big galvanized funnel, and welded the small end shut,,, I wear that.

 

[Nehemiah Scudder]

OK, I'm going to admit this makes no sense to me. There is no moral reason that people should only buy guns to use or to sell at a loss. Buying to sell for profit is exactly what firearms dealers do, they buy guns from the manufacturer, and hope to sell them to us at a profit. Are you saying this sucks? I don't see how, as without that profit thing I'd find it hard to get guns.

Selling pieces of your collection, shows lack of respect for the collection. Doesn't matter if it's books, Pez dispensers, Barbie dolls, comic books or guns. Exceptions can be made for items that aren't "worthy" enough to be included in the collection to begin with.

 

[kbheiner7]

There are a lot better ways to invest than in guns. While a few may appreciate significantly, most are lucky to hold their value.

Guns are made to be shot - shoot 'em!

 

[jdberger]

No, Cheese, I on't have an FFL (yet).

but I often find something that I don't need or really want but is so underpriced that I have to get it, maybe to use later in a trade or to make a little cash so I can finance my next poject. Found a Winnie '92 SRC for $250 at a gunshow once. Once found a Python for $200. These things get turned around when there is time and opportunity. As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with that...

 

[ctdonath]

BUY LAND !!

Take the world land surface area and divide it by the world population. You get about 6 acres per person. Then consider half the land mass is serious wilderness (less than 3 people per square mile for a whole lotta miles). Your fair share is about 3 acres - and it's decreasing all the time.

Get your land while you still can. Then get some more & sell it later.