IRAQ: Short Shotgun Replaces Bayonet

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The smart thing to do would be to change the bayonets role. Take the new Marine Corps bayonet the blade is made of 1095 and will take a good edge. The bayonet it replaced was made of soft steel that couldn't take an edge. The idea being you could issue a bayonet and use it as a tool for opening MREs, cutting 550 cord and any other little task you would need it for. That way if you needed to do crowd control for a riot you could still fix bayonets and if you needed it for anything else you are good to go. The bayonet is not obsolete it just needs an expanded role past fix bayonets.
 
What about bolting ANOTHER M16 to an M16? That should make people stop whining about the weakness of the round.
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Thank, you, Tromix

Go to the Tromix Projects link on the left side of the page, and scroll down a little bit.

Siamese .223

The latest and most insane creation by Tromix is this Siamese 223 for LAW Enforcement only. The synergistic exchange of gas tubes forces the expanding gasses from the lower rifle to the top rifle allowing it to cycle a cartridge into the top breach then fire when the bolt is closed. The gas from the top rifle is then sent back down to the lower rifle where the first empty round gets ejected and a new cartridge is loaded into the breach. It is a wicked wild ride when fired FULL AUTO.
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When I was with the 2nd Mar Div they said you couldn't even sharpen the bayonet because to use it was considered cruel and unusal punishment to the person being killed. Most I saw where broken from trying to use the wire cutter on them, anyway. I think the K-bar is a better weapon system than the bayonet.
 
The underslung shotty is a good idea however that one looks like a forward heavy jammo-matic. Why not a single shot?
 
great yet more weight to carry around, always looks better on powerpoint
 
"It only weights 2 lbs. 11 oz."

That may not be a lot on paper, but things get heavier the longer you carry them.... I'm sure having a shotgun under your M16 will not only throw off your balance but also be awkward to hold the gun to shoot it properly.
 
When I was with the 2nd Mar Div they said you couldn't even sharpen the bayonet because to use it was considered cruel and unusal punishment to the person being killed.
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I was always told they make the bayonets soft so they stay dull. That way when you stab someone it won't go pierce bone and will bounce off instead. That way the bayonet would be easier to pull out. I was told that by several different marines including an old gunny that trained Navy Seals, SWAT and Force Recon. Besides the old bayonets don't sharpen at all. They are worse than a cheap boy scout knife.
 
The M1 Carbine bayonet I just found at a garage sale (one dollar! Woot!) seems to have taken an edge very nicely... Then again, it's from WWII.
 
This just cements my desire to decap a silhouette using my bayonet next time the opportunity presents itself in a match or practice...
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Go right ahead. When you throw your sites off and bend your stock (or your barrel) I am sure you will find a new appreciation for the underslung shotgun.

That may not be a lot on paper, but things get heavier the longer you carry them.... I'm sure having a shotgun under your M16 will not only throw off your balance but also be awkward to hold the gun to shoot it properly.
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No more (and certainly less) than a M203. The question is "Is it worth it" the answer is "almost certainly". Remember most engagement ranges will be under 100 meters. What would you rather have when clearing a room; .223 or 12 Ga? I am kind if thinking that the 12Ga has a little more punch...

The underslung shotty is a good idea however that one looks like a forward heavy jammo-matic. Why not a single shot?
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One is almost never enough. Besides it does not jam easily.

great yet more weight to carry around, always looks better on powerpoint
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Given the choice of:
- A full size 12Ga (in place of or in addition to M4) or
- An M9 + ammo + mags or
- Underslung 12Ga

I have to go with the last... Powerpoint and all.

This has been a long time coming and is the right thing to do.
 
Try putting an edge on an Ar15 bayonet. Unless you got one of the new ontario bayonets in 1095 carbon steel it ain't happening. They just won't stay sharp.
 
I think loading that thing up with: entry round, flashbang, frag grenadeX3 might be handy. Blow the door, stun em, and if they start shooting back, fire a couple frags. Basically a mini M203, but can fire multiple special purpose shells quickly.

Loading up on the tac-rail stuff would make it hard to effectivly use a bayonet anyway, you might be able to push, or jab, but you could forget any butt strikes, slashes, blocks or to pare against an attack.
 
JHansenAK47 said:
I was always told they make the bayonets soft so they stay dull. That way when you stab someone it won't go pierce bone and will bounce off instead. That way the bayonet would be easier to pull out. I was told that by several different marines including an old gunny that trained Navy Seals, SWAT and Force Recon. Besides the old bayonets don't sharpen at all. They are worse than a cheap boy scout knife.
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This is why we in the Canadian Forces never used bayonets. We were issued "Rifle Mountable Fighting Knives". :p There was a rules of war convention that proscribes the use of sharpened bayonets... When we have a stuck knife we just squeeze the trigger...

By the way, wasn't there a "master key" in use under m16s at one time?
 
Titan6, "One is almost never enough. Besides it does not jam easily."

Yes, but don't forget you have a rifle attached to that shotty. Could you please cite a reference testifying to it's cycling reliability? Tks
 
What would you rather have when clearing a room; .223 or 12 Ga? I am kind if thinking that the 12Ga has a little more punch...
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Now now, ask the question properly.

"what would you rather have when clearing a room; an automatic .223 or a bolt action 12 gauge?

I'm going with the auto.
 
The underslung shotty is a good idea however that one looks like a forward heavy jammo-matic. Why not a single shot?
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Indeed. Why make it needlessly complex? Now you have TWO bolts you have to work on your rifle. A single (or maybe a short double-barrel... hmmm!) mounted under the rail that's light weight and guaranteed to work. Just eject the spent shell(s), pop in a fresh one or two for later. Why are you going to the trouble to fire multiple shotgun shells when you have a perfectly good AR15 to shoot poodles with up top? ;)
 
No more (and certainly less) than a M203. The question is "Is it worth it" the answer is "almost certainly". Remember most engagement ranges will be under 100 meters. What would you rather have when clearing a room; .223 or 12 Ga? I am kind if thinking that the 12Ga has a little more punch...
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Yeah, well, I wouldn't want an M203 on my gun either....But the shotgun part is a bolt action, If I were clearing a room I wouldn't want just one shot of 00, plus I think its more designed for door breaching, so you might only be issued slugs or those new disintegrating slugs that don't throw lead at you. If the military wanted a combat shotgun they would just issue shotguns(and they do...). Although, you might be able to get away with getting off a shot with the shotgun and at the same time be able to use your rifle with your other hand.

I just think it is more unwieldy how far down from the gun it comes and how you would have to hold it. I would like to hear your experience shooting it, though. From the video, it appeared as though the guy didn't take to much time working the bolt, is the one you shot similar?
 
When I was with the 2nd Mar Div they said you couldn't even sharpen the bayonet because to use it was considered cruel and unusal punishment to the person being killed.
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Not to dispute what you were told, but since when did the 8th amendment apply to foreign combatants/enemies?
 
Yes, but don't forget you have a rifle attached to that shotty. Could you please cite a reference testifying to it's cycling reliability? Tks
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Sadly I can not, other than what the military claims. Everyone that I have talked to says thiers works just fine. Maybe I can post a review in January after more use.

"what would you rather have when clearing a room; an automatic .223 or a bolt action 12 gauge?
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Actually no. M4s are select fire, not fully automatic. This is partly a personal preference thing I think. Partly I don't want my rounds going out a window an extra 500 meters and causing collateral damage by shooting some kid. Partly not shooting through the target and hitting an unitended target. Partly an easy way to open doors. M4s are used plenty for room clearing but are not always the best solution for everything.

Yeah, well, I wouldn't want an M203 on my gun either....But the shotgun part is a bolt action, If I were clearing a room I wouldn't want just one shot of 00, plus I think its more designed for door breaching, so you might only be issued slugs or those new disintegrating slugs that don't throw lead at you. If the military wanted a combat shotgun they would just issue shotguns(and they do...). Although, you might be able to get away with getting off a shot with the shotgun and at the same time be able to use your rifle with your other hand.
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Okay. Pictue this. You get your shotgun, leave the FOB and head to town to raid an apartment building. When you get there you start recieving fire from the rooftops about 200 meters away. Hmm.. now that Mossberg seems to be lacking a little does it not? But no fear we have the M4 on top.

But more importantly also consider less lethals... You can transition seemlessly from less lethals to lethals without changing weapons, ammo or even sight picture.

There are tons of other advantages as well. Don't worry I am sure NY, IL and California will ban them soon enough and then you all can clamor for them as essential to liberty.
 
The Tromix would seem to be an adaptation of the Gast system. The Russians used the 2-bbl systen with each operating the other for aerial cannons.
 
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