What Makes a Shotgun Good?....

[Dave McCracken]

There's been a fair amount of debate here amounting to "My shotgun can whip your shotgun".

Maybe some dialog on what we want and expect from our shotguns is in order.This can apply to both "Serious" and recreational shotguns.

Here's my opinions, none graven on Tablets of Stone.

A good shotgun should be....

Reliable. A failure rate of LESS than 1/200 rounds is minimal.Most modern US made repeaters qualify.

Durable. A use life of upwards of 35K rounds. Again, most modern US made repeaters can do this, some with a bit of small parts replacement.

Comfortable to use. This means fitting the shooter, of a weight consistent to the Rule of 96 with the load of choice, and capable of being shot many times in a short time period w/o pain. Ergonomics fit in here, and so does a clean, light but safe trigger.

Appropriate to the mission. 410s should not be used for pass shooting geese, nor 10 gauges weighing 12 lbs lugged through alder thickets for woodcock.

Appropriate to the shooter. That 10 gauge in pixie hands is punishing to use.

Affordable. Either on base price or per use. A $1K gun that lasts 50K rounds may be "Better" than a $500 gun that barely makes it through 25K.

Esthetically pleasing. This is completely subjective.

Capable of quick and effective employment. Most shotgun usage, from crisis management to quail hunting, takes place in short time frames. The weapon, in the hands of THAT shooter, must be fast but sure.

Use commonly available ammo. No 24 gauges. No 2" chambers.

That's about it. What do YOU think?

 

[SDC]

I think you've pretty well covered it, but there's one facet that I look for ("fit?"; maybe this is being "comfortable to use?"); when I bring a shotgun up, I want it to be naturally pointing where I'm LOOKING, so I don't need to try to force myself into a position where I can use that shotgun effectively. Some shotguns do this for me, but others feel like I'm trying to dance the tango with an octopus.

 

[Dave McCracken]

"Capable of quck and effective employment" means fit, among other things.

I consciously avoided using "Fit" in those descriptions. Some folks may run shy of that term.

 

[45auto]

On recreational shotguns I would "up the bar" on both reliability and durability depending on whether it's an O/U or auto.
At least from my experience, on the quality O/U at the average of $1800 and up, the reliability better be at the failure rate of 1/10,000- maybe.
Durability should be at least 50,000 before a rebuild and no set amount of rebuilds.
The high grade O/U will go much longer before rebuilds, but cost 2-3 times to do it, perhaps a "wash"- I don't know!
That is not to imply that parts don't break sometimes, but it's not rule for well made O/U's.
I would not expect the same kind of performance from lower priced O/U's. A Ruger should last several lifetimes of "hunting" and is backed up by a very good company.

Autoloaders, I would expect 1/1000 if you are careful with loads, perhaps much longer if you are diligent with cleaning. I have seen some autos(Beretta's) go much longer without a problem.
I suspect they will easily exceed the 35,000 mark in durability, but all the people I know that shoot them have 2-3 autos, so it's hard to determine.

My comments are based on clay targets, high volume and "target" loads.

Evertime my autoloader has broken, it's been in the cold weather, heavy loads and of course, no spare gun. So your failure rate of 1/200 would fit my hunting gun just fine. I doubt it would last 35,000 rounds of heavy hunting loads either.

 

[El Tejon]

Sort of like golf clubs--purpose, utileness and "feel."

 

[sm]

Dave,
Well, you summed it up very well.

In anything it is the user, not the implement. Once one gets the fit,( implement to user) training, and practice, one is better using said implement.

Granted, depending on budget, certain upgrades may improve fit, handling, longevity...but then again budget and diminishing return kicks in.

Nothing wrong with pride of ownership. Then again one cannot buy what only blood , sweat and tears will get you.

I have missed with a 32K Kreigoff, I have run straights with my scruffy field grade SX1 that fits. On the field style points don't count-- "if it breaks its broke". In real life, there is no degree of dead-- "dead is dead"

This is just a simple fact of life-be it:

Firearms, golf clubs, tennis raquets, tiddlywinks,....

( Don't care what Blackhawk said, I think I made curmdegon at 48, he said I had 12 yrs to go)

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, folks, a couple things....

Re Reliability, 1/200 is mentioned because if a shotgun is going to glitch, it'll probably do so before it's well broken in. On a used, broken in weapon, it should be more like 1/1000 or more.

With 870s, that's not hard to do. Same with other quality shotguns.

Just for comparison's sake, an armorer will recommend a rebuild on a K-frame S&W every 5K rounds, 3K if fed just 357s or +P+ 38s.

If I were using any of the many good autos out there, I'd probably go for new springs every 10K rounds. With care and PM like that,light load usage would probably boost the working life well into 6 figures.

 

[TIMC]

I think your comments are right on target Dave.

I love my O/U because of the feel, reliability, and price, around $700. I bought a Huglu 103CE in 12 gauge. I have several thousand rounds thru it and so far and have had no faliures. I wasn't ready to spend 2K on a shotgun Maybe by the time I wear it out I'll try something better, but it is very comfortable for me to shoot and I'm very happy with it for now.

 

[Nippy]

I think those are good qualifications. I would also put down Manual of Arms.

 

[PJR]

Reliability, durability, compatibility, useability and the magic.

Magic is the sense you get when you pick up a gun and it feels like it's part of you. It swings smoothly and well in your hands.

Magic is the ball of smoke hanging in the air where once flew a spinning clay target.

Magic is holding a gun over a century old in silent awe at the skill of the men who made it and realizing that gun is as good today as it was back then.

Magic is the retriever bringing back a pheasant or duck that dropped from the sky at your shot and will soon grace your dinner table.

Magic is the treestand during the shotgun-only season as you patiently watch the big buck amble into range.

Magic is the feeling of the weight in your hands as your heart beat slows back to normal when a bump in the night turns out to be just a bump.

That's what makes a good gun.

Paul

 

[HS/LD]

Thats great my $239 Winchester Defender is a "good" shotgun then.

As an update I haven't been on here for a while as I have been doing a little vacationing.

The HS/LD Limited Edition Defender (you can get your for about $225 at a sporting goods store near you) has well over 10,000 12 gauge shells through it.

Only glitches were created by yours truly.

0/10,000

Thanks for the good post Dave.

HS/LD

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

my mossberg is well on the way to fitting the description of a good shotgun. the stock is still too long, and conesquently doesn't fit quite right, but it's close enough.

 

[Red Label]

I have found that of the six shotguns that I own I use three of them the most and that is because when I take them out I know they are going to work. My 12ga Red Label for sporting clays and trap and after about a year of use now I have had 0 problems. My 20ga 870 which accompanies me on just about every excursion into the woods for any reason. 0 malfunctions as in never and then my M42 Winchester which is just for fun when ever I feel like it or when I feel like a challenge. Its a .410. I also have an old M12 which goes without saying, bulletproof but it is old enough to be able to enjoy some retirement. To pick the perfect shotgun for everything is impossible. They each have their own purpose of which each is very good at. All were affordable. The Red Label is near the lower center of the O/U spectrum unless of course you are going for a K or P gun. We know the 870 is reasonable and I got real lucky with the M42

 

[Dave McCracken]

Good input, folks. Thanks...

TIMC, if it works for you, wonderful.

Nippy,"Capable of quick and effective employment" covers MOA, I think.

Paul, thanks for those images.There's a bard in you, clamoring to get out.

"Feel" is impossible to quantify. Good fit and form combined with heavy use, make any shotgun "Feel" good. As you know, I try out a fair number of shotguns at the range. Most recently a Browning O/U in an ultra light version. Smoked a target with it. After handling and using so many shotguns over the years for so many purposes, the "Feel" comes pretty easily.When any shotgun "Feels" like a body part instead of a well known tool, you're there.

HS/LD, you've a good shotgun...

Andrew, keep at it. Get the fit right, BA/UU/R, and a Satori will come.

Red Label, you've got good'uns there. Back when I owned shotguns other than 870s, I still found myself reaching for an 870 more oft than not.

All, please note that most of this thread had little to do with brands or types of action. To paraphrase Gertrude Stein, a good shotgun is a good shotgun is a good shotgun....

 

[TaxPhd]

"Good is as Good does" After that, it is the magic, like Paul said.

I have a SxS made in 1894 by E. Harrison & Co. (Edgar Harrison is the brother of the man that gave his name to Cogswell & Harrison). Absolutely amazing what they could do back then, and that it is still going fine now, almost 110 years later. When I hold it, I feel the magic.

I break clays better with my 682 Gold than with my 1100. Why? I dunno. Fit, or maybe it's the magic. Either way, I like shooting the 682 more than the 1100.

I've been looking at P guns. Why? I dunno. Magic? Or is it that I am a gun snob like my redneck budy says? Who cares!

 

[Dave McCracken]

TaxPhd, Snob, schnob. If the shotgun works for thee, so be it.

Perazzis are good shotguns. If only it didn't take so many DMMUs to purchase one...

 

[TIMC]

I have given some thought to the upscale gentleman's gun. I would like to try a couple to see how they perform. As yet I can not bring myself to spend several thousand on a high quality BB slinger. I think my ability will have to improve some more first.

 

[Dave McCracken]

TIMC, to steal and amend Bruce Buck's steps to Shotgun Heaven....

Buy a Big Four Pumpgun.

Shoot it for a year. Once fit and form are correct, do not change anything.

When the year is up, you'll have a good idea of what works for you.

 

[Rupe]

For me it's the feel in my arms that makes it a good shotgun. I must admit I've never shot an expensive over and under or a state of the art auto. So my opinion may be meaningless.

I own 3 shotguns. One is a Remington 870, the other an Ohio Arms Long Tom (over 100 years old) and a Winchester slug gun, which I really don't own as I gave it to my dad.

I love the 870 and it just "feels right" in my hands.

Now as a newbie I might get some grief over this comment, but I feel natural ability is just as important as the weapon.






To my good friend and mentor Dave Mc thanks for showing me a new home.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Welcome aboard, Best Buddy. Glad you found us.
It's the pianist, not the piano....