Iraq's "Second Amendment"

[PeteyPete]

I'm sure at one point the topic of gun rights in Iraq has been broached, but I was unaware of the specifics, so I thought I'd bring it to the forum. I'll apologize in advance if this is a dupe.

While watching a documentary about our military operations in Iraq, the soldiers mentioned that Iraqi's are permitted one AK47 per adult age male in each household. It was stated that brandishing one out in the open will probably get you killed by US troops who will assume your an insurgent, but AK47's are legally permitted in order to defend against "Ali-Baba" (Thieves).

I just don't understand how our government, both federal and state (NJ, Cali, NY, MD, CT), can claim that Americans can't be trusted with assault rifles while permitting them in a nation filled with primitive Bedouin tribesmen who murder at the drop of a hat and universally have "alpha dog" complexes.

 

[Hardtarget]

Maybe because the Army is going to, one day, leave that place. Also, our politicians are not there, so they feel safe with all those AKs that far away.
or maybe I'm wrong.

Mark.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

Its the poster child for why gun control DOESN'T work.

Lets Review. Clearly I.E.D.s are outside the scope of what they are Allowed to have......yet they have them.

We find weapon stashes with numerous weapons, Ak-47s and virtually anything made in the last 100 years. But the bad guys still get them.

ANSWER: They are allowed to keep an AK to defend themselves. The bad guys will get the weapons they want anyway.

 

[Tommygunn]

We can't really make laws pertaining to whether or not a "nation filled with primitive Bedouin tribesmen" can keep or bear arms. Even if we tried, when we left, they could change it.

On the other hand, they can do so here. We're a lot easier to control since we're not in a sandbox on the other side of the planet .......

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

It depends on the province/city. They all have their own laws pertaining to private ownership of arms. The reason for the difference here is that the politicians know that there won't be repercussions by gradually stripping of us of our arms. Most will trip over themselves to abide by the law to the very letter and those that don't will be outcast and reported by those who do. See: Assault Weapon Ban, 922r, etc.

"Ali-Baba" (Thieves)

This piece of irony shows how ignorant people are in other parts of the world are of their own culture. It's a universal trait of mankind.

 

[azhunter122]

It doesn't make a bit of sense!

 

[7mmsavage]

I'm sure the decision of what type of gun they can keep is mostly logistic. AKs are everywhere and very cheap around the world. If they tried somethiing as rediculous as saying citizens could only keep a revolver in their home, (Wahington D.C.) we would probably have lost all of the support of the people there. Unfortunately too many Americans haven't learned it's a bad idea to support and vote for, an openly oppresive government. Maybe they believe when they are told, like a child, that gun laws are "for your own good".

 

[sernv99]

I just don't understand how our government, both federal and state (NJ, Cali, NY, MD, CT), can claim that Americans can't be trusted with assault rifles while permitting them in a nation filled with primitive Bedouin tribesmen who murder at the drop of a hat and universally have "alpha dog" complexes.

probably because the chances of lil' Ali going to school with his fully auto AK and shooting it up a la V-Tech, is zero?

probably because the chances of Akmed the postal worker blazing his AK into his co-workers is zero?

probably because the chances of Mohammad the local h.s. dropout shooting up a street corner of his fellow countrymen playing dice on a Saturday night is zero?

by the way, before you post something, make sure you get your facts straight so you look smart. Iraqis are not, be definition, Bedouins. Bedouins are nomadic desert tribes that drift across north Africa and the Arabian peninsula. The majority of Iraqi's are defined as Arabic. After that, Kurds, Turkomen, etc fill in the other ethnicities. I guess they didn't point that out in the documentary you watched, huh?

 

[HarleyFixer]

by the way, before you post something, make sure you get your facts straight so you look smart. Iraqis are not, be definition, Bedouins. Bedouins are nomadic desert tribes that drift across north Africa and the Arabian peninsula. The majority of Iraqi's are defined as Arabic. After that, Kurds, Turkomen, etc fill in the other ethnicities. I guess they didn't point that out in the documentary you watched, huh?

+10

 

[Guns and more]

The majority of Iraqi's are defined as Arabic. After that, Kurds, Turkomen, etc fill in the other ethnicities.

Glad you cleared that up.
Now, these people of Arabic descent live in the 7th century, often ruled by no one or at best warlords. You expect civility to prevail?

 

[kirkcdl]

It isn't up to our government to permit anything in another country...

 

[X-Rap]

The right to defend yourself, family, and country comes from God not man. The method we choose should be of little matter.

 

[Mainsail]

…a nation filled with primitive Bedouin tribesmen who murder at the drop of a hat and universally have "alpha dog" complexes.

Do you have any other prejudices you’d like to air? Blacks are inferior and should be relegated to slavery perhaps? How about those Puerto Ricans? I think your message about comparing our firearms laws is going to get lost by your bigotry.

 

[PeteyPete]

by the way, before you post something, make sure you get your facts straight so you look smart. Iraqis are not, be definition, Bedouins. Bedouins are nomadic desert tribes that drift across north Africa and the Arabian peninsula. The majority of Iraqi's are defined as Arabic. After that, Kurds, Turkomen, etc fill in the other ethnicities. I guess they didn't point that out in the documentary you watched, huh?

I appreciate the elucidation on the ethnic demographics of Iraq...apparently for all your knowledge, you can't detect when someone is being deliberately glib.

It isn't up to our government to permit anything in another country...

I respectfully disagree. I seriously doubt that the US military would allow Iraqi men to keep AK47's in their living room, despite the threat they pose, simply to abide by Iraqi National law.

 

[James T Thomas]

gone to the dogs

Hey, Pete:

Thanks for the post.

And please ignore the baiting.

I watch the news and never before discerned the faces on the Iraqi men
who were out in the streets for this purpose or that, until you phrased it
"Alpha dog complex." Now I see it!

They are a different "breed" from the men I faced.

 

[NavyLCDR]

They have to have a government issued permit for their AK-47, though. Without the permit it is illegal.

 

[7.5-Swiss]

Now, these people of Arabic descent live in the 7th century, often ruled by no one or at best warlords. You expect civility to prevail?

Perhaps you're mistaking Iraq for Afghanistan. Iraq, pre-invasion and today is by no means 'living in the 7th century", certainly there are some very poor families there, and people living without some of the comforts we have (power, running water), which is in some part due to our destruction of their infrastructure during the initial invasion..

Iraq, before the chaos caused by our invasion, was certainly culturally different than the United States but I think its unfair to dismiss the entire nation or culture as living in the 7th century and ruled by warlords. Afghanistan as ruled by the Taliban seems a much better fit for that description. There is no mandatory hijab wearing in Iraq, there are woman doctors there, heck, Islam was not nearly as important there as it was to the Taliban - Saddam only used it as a tool to attract extremist allies once the invasion happened.

That seems like a pretty fancy swimming pool for a bunch of arabs stuck in the 7th century...

Heck, they even have rock bands...
http://www.metimes.com/International/2007/12/20/iraqi_rock_band_cuts_first_arabic_single/1147/


Sorry to take the bait, I just hate how gun-owners get stereotyped as a bunch of bigots.

Anyway, as far as the Iraqi gun laws go - we need the cooperation of the Iraqi government in order to succeed in Iraq, so I'm not really sure we are dictating their domestic policies to them.

 

[rocinante]

IIRC previous discussions of these iraqi rights are all followed by clauses that would let them be legislated away. That whole 'reasonable' legal slippery slope.

 

[rocinante]

IIRC previous discussions of these iraqi rights are all followed by clauses that would let them be legislated away. That whole 'reasonable' legal slippery slope.

 

[rainbowbob]

...a nation filled with primitive Bedouin tribesmen who murder at the drop of a hat and universally have "alpha dog" complexes.

Intentionally glib or not - a discussion of Iraq's gun laws went right off the rails when you included that.

I detect the smell of thread-lock wafting this way.

 

[Apachedriver]

I seriously doubt that the US military would allow Iraqi men to keep AK47's in their living room, despite the threat they pose, simply to abide by Iraqi National law.

Umm, yeah...you'd be seriously wrong in that assumption. That's a large part of the operation here...helping to establish and providing continued support to the Iraqi govt and their laws so the country can stand on its own.

Now I'm not saying I agree or disagree, or whether it's working or not. I'm just saying your assumtion isn't correct.

Now back when we first came in and the first couple of years here...different circumstances so different story.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I'd like to see Bloomberg, Feinstein, McCarthy and all the usual suspects go over there and try to dress down an Iraqi about how his AK isn't 922r compliant.

 

[sernv99]

I appreciate the elucidation on the ethnic demographics of Iraq...apparently for all your knowledge, you can't detect when someone is being deliberately glib. if you have the mindset to post something like that as a "glib" you obviously don't expect any "real" debate on your topic, now do you?