Iron Sight vs. Scope

[mustanger98]

I recall something Sheriff Jim Wilson wrote in Shooting Times... he said scopes don't help the size of your groups, but they do give you a better look at your target, or words to that effect.

My own opinion is I prefer good aperture sights, but I can shoot with open sights (depending on which open sights I'm dealing with- if you can't see 'em, you can't reliably hit with 'em) and I can shoot with a scope.

I sometimes talk about my Savage Model 11GL in .243Winchester... I've had it in mind from the start to mount a Williams FP/TK, but right now it's wearing a forty year old fixed 4X scope in see-through mounts. It's dead-on at 100yds, but it's good for a lot further. This rifle has open sights on the barrel and I can hit with them, but they're not my favorite irons. That's why I mounted the scope for the time being. I also have this Savage M340 in .30-30Winchester... it came with a 3-9X Bushnell and it's dead on at 100yds. But, my old 94 .30-30 with the Lyman #2 tang sight... it's as dead-on at 100yds as the other two are with scopes and I'm confident I can kill a deer to 200yds with it. I know they're zeroed because I shot all three just yesterday on the 100yd range I have access to.

Anybody here shoot smallbore rifle sillouette? Last match I shot, I used my match .22LR... most folks use scopes, but my rifle wears a Lyman #57RS rear and 17A front. I was drawing comments from a couple of older gentlemen who know me from the range and club meetings and the gun shops... they said I was outshooting some of the other guys who were using scopes.

BTW, while I'm not really one way or the other on the scope vs. irons debate, and I do lean towards apertures for my own use, I'm 32 years old and most guys my age seem to think scopes are "the only game in town" as somebody already mentioned so many seem to think. When I was shopping for the puchase that became my M11GL, I considered a Model 70 left-hand in .270Win. and mounting apertures on it. I commented on that to somebody at the range and they emmediately hollered "oh no! glass it!!!", but that was right before they found out how I generally go around and around with getting the eye relief right to get a scope to focus.

 

[gila_dog]

Like just about everything else in the world, nothing is all good or all bad. Iron (or non-optical) sights should be more rugged and therefore reliable, but the only rifle sight I ever busted on a hunting trip was one of those spiffy (but delicate) new "fiber optic" sights on a muzzle loader. I wasn't even aware of the tree branch hitting it and knocking it off. When I raised the rifle to shoot, all I had for a front sight was the little tube where the plastic fiber used to be.

Personally, I like a good scope for hunting elk and such because I can shoot more accurately, and quicker, with it in the conditions I am most likely to see such game. The heart/lung area of an elk or deer lurking in the dark woods just before sunrise is a much harder target to see clearly than a black bull's eye on a white background at the range at mid day. Cover part of that area up with a bead front sight, hide even more of it behind a rear sight, or reduce what little light is available by peeking thru a little hole, and it gets even harder. Look at the same target thru a decent scope that actually brightens the picture, and it gets easier. If what you are doing is shooting at paper or silhouettes, then the only harm done by not seeing your target well when you pull the trigger is some wasted ammo and frustration. But when I get within 200 yds of an elk standing broadside, the hunt is over. Now it's time for a clean, humane kill. A scope gives me a much better chance of making that happen. But, just in case I fall down a rock slide and destroy my scope, I sure like knowing that the rifle's original iron sights are there and can be used. That's why I make sure they are on-target at 100 yds before mounting a scope on the rifle.

 

[MinScout]

IMHO, a serious hunter uses a good low-mounted scope. In my area, deer are relatively sparce in number and a permit is required for antlerless deer. In order to discern antlers, especially towards sunset, a scope is almost mandatory. If I lived where deer were much more numerous and I could count on multiple sightings a day, I might use iron sights on occasian for the added challenge.

BTW, even the Benoits are starting to use scopes on their Remington pumps.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

iron sights are basically an affectation and not practical

Some of the rifle manufacturers seem to believe it. Some rifles are sold with no sights. Some others are sold with some POS stamping that claims to be a sight. I'd settle for a rifle drilled & tapped for a nice Lyman or Redfield rear peep. With a front globe that holds an aperture for targets or a bright dot (like that optical fiber stuff which name escapes me) for game.

Regards.

 

[mustanger98]

Some of the rifle manufacturers seem to believe it. Some rifles are sold with no sights.

That's the thing I don't like about Model 70's, many M700's, and a lot of everything else.

Some others are sold with some POS stamping that claims to be a sight.

Big problem on those that are so equipped. I gripe about the rear sight on my M11GL, but it's a low-end Williams. It's not bad, but it's not my preferrence.

I'd settle for a rifle drilled & tapped for a nice Lyman or Redfield rear peep. With a front globe that holds an aperture for targets or a bright dot (like that optical fiber stuff which name escapes me) for game.

I go back to my 94 .30-30... I didn't absolutely have to have the #2 tang sight, but I wanted one. Otherwise, I could've just gone with a Lyman (#66, I think) or Williams FP/TK which I also have which bolts right up on the left side of the receiver. While my Winchester wears its original gold bead front sight which works quite well, as I also said before, my match .22LR wears a 17A on the front and I have the different inserts for it so, yeah, it's a great set-up.

 

[Essex County]

Most of my rifles are scoped (except for my mil-surps). However, I recently realized I didn't have a light and handy foul wheather rifle in my inventory. I went out and picked up a bone stock Model 94. I hadent owned one in years and it was my intention to add a Williams Foolproof. After a couple of range sessions with my 60 year old eyes I've decided to save my money....Essex