Is 2A eventually doomed?

[BBQJOE]

Am I just more aware these days with the net and all?
Or is the 2A under more fire than it has ever been?
If I followed knitting needles would I be as upset as I am every day reading here about gun rights?

Why is it states grant rights to carry, if it is a RIGHT?
Granting shouldn't even be part of the equation.

Isn't the 2A law?

Why does it seem challenged at every turn of the corner?

Why does it seem we need to bust ass continuously
to keep rights that were built into our fabric?

Last question, if any sanction of government showed up at your door and told you they were there to relieve you of your firearms permanently, would you actually use everyone of them you could to stop them?

 

[Jeff]

Eventually doomed?

Yes.

Civilization-- all civilization-- creeps inevitably towards Socialism. Socialism does not like the right to keep and bear arms.

The only difference between us and England is the pace.

We are behind.

 

[SVT93]

I'd say its pretty much dead already.

 

[.cheese.]

I would have said yes a few months ago.

Now I'm starting to think there might be hope.

 

[mnrivrat]

Thoughout the history of governments it has always been a goal of those in charge to disarm the citizens.

To be frankly honest here most govenments know that the only real power the people have is the power of violence . (IMO) This nation was started by violent revolution and the founders were keenly aware of the historical power struggle between citizen and government. A nation for, and by the people ,was the goal in establishing this nation. A limited government.

It was intended to be a democratic republic . Not a pure democracy where majority rules every aspect of life for those who don't have the 51% . Therefore the bill of rights as a tool to limit government from infringing on inailenable rights of citizens.

We are 200+ years into this experiment in govenment for the people & by the people - the corruption is showing, the increasing government control is showing, and of course the danger to those in charge is being dealt with in the manner that is historicaly proven to work. (disarming the citizens). For those who believe that you can claim back this nation at the voting booth I will point out the two party system and how both parties are influenced by the same powers . A third party able to influence government outcome ? Well , nearly impossible under the present system . Voting for any within the two party system is an illusion of control for the most part. You will need to convince enough people to vote outside the 2 party system to make much of a difference , or at least for persons within the 2 major parties who are free thinkers if you can find them. We are at best holding our own at this time.

The second amendment is the last major hurtle to overcome in order to have complete government control . It's being vigorously attack and will continue to be.

 

[RobTzu]

I will answer the last part first. Yes, I would go down in a hail of gunfire if the government came for my weapons. I owe my son nothing less.

That being said, fighting for limited government is a hobby for me. I could lie and say full time job. Truth is putting food on the table, and finishing my college degree are my full time jobs. Hopefully in the future I can put more time into securing freedoms for my progeny. But I have to be realistic.

I will buy my assault rifle soon, before any new ban, and pour money into the NRA and vote for 2nd amendment supporters.

 

[Standing Wolf]

To be frankly honest here most govenments know that the only real power the people have is the power of violence . (IMO) This nation was started by violent revolution and the founders were keenly aware of the historical power struggle between citizen and government. A nation for, and by the people ,was the goal in establishing this nation. A limited government.

It was intended to be a democratic republic . Not a pure democracy where majority rules every aspect of life for those who don't have the 51% . Therefore the bill of rights as a tool to limit government from infringing on inailenable rights of citizens.

The minute we stopped fighting the old English "government" was the moment we started losing to the new American government. I've heard it said the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

Vigilance is easier to maintain in times of crisis.

We've settled for bread and circuses. We've already lost all but a vestige of our civil rights—or perhaps I should say "abandoned" rather than "lost."

 

[Glockman17366]

The 2nd Amendment will be doomed if all you guys keep preaching doom and gloom.
Threads like this disturb me. It's like you're giving up the fight...

Believe me...things were a lot worse (politically) in 1994 (when the assault rifle ban came in). There were few states that were "shall issue" for CCW. Now most states have some kind of CCW laws.
Brady Campaign had a lot more credibility then.
Now, they're on the defensive...as is much gun control.

Doom and Gloom doesn't help the cause...be positive...keep on web sites like this (and the NRA...maybe GOA) for information and be aggresively involved. If folks aren't willing to contact their representatives (state and federal) it's no use whining about it here....right?

But do me a favor...if you're ready to give up...don't bother posting...

 

[rocinante]

I think at the moment the tide is turning toward and not away from the second amendment. Yes there is a steady assault on the freedom by lawmakers but by large the average citizen is getting a clue especially women. All the things some reasonable enlightened civilized people rejected as cliches are ringing true. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns. Scarier yet the biggest outlaws of all, the government. Guns are defensive. The average person does not care at all about the second amendment but he can be persuaded to rational self interest. Only the starry eyed will think all guns will be cast into the sea and peace and harmony reign thereafter. Practical argument 'it is better to have a gun and not use it than to need a gun and not have one'. If they counter that is unlikely just give them a smile like you would to a five year old. Thats so cute. naive but cute.

 

[Smoke]

Believe me...things were a lot worse (politically) in 1994 (when the assault rifle ban came in). There were few states that were "shall issue" for CCW. Now most states have some kind of CCW laws.

Yes, that's the cyclical nature of all things. Things will get worse when the Democrats put the next president in office (which I beleive they will, looka the the houses already). Then if the Conservatives can get their ducks lined up in the next 4 to 8 years, the bad can be undone.

One must also look at the present laws on the books. Is issuing CHLs an improvement? I live in a "shall issue" state that charges me $140 bucks and restricts me with all types of rules/regs/laws about my God given right to arm myself as stated in the constitution.

And is licensing folks the first step in collecting the database for registration?

Gloom and doom? or realistic view?

You decide.

Smoke

 

[twenty711]

Hell No.

I'm not giving up any fight or even argument. Don't give up! If they come for your guns you know what to do.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Or is the 2A under more fire than it has ever been?

Hardly.

We're actually doing quite well, compared to the gun bigot ascendancies in the late 60's/early 70's and the Klinton era.

*The AWB is Dead*
*Shall Issue carry permit policies are the norm
*There have been 2 circuit courts coming down on the individual rights side
*The executive via DOJ acknowledges 2A as an individual right
* The Democrats, who are the usual political champion of the forces of organized gun bigotry have paid heavy prices for that particular ideology, and have learned to keep their head down


It ain't all sun, wine and roses, but it's been a LOT darker.

 

[lysander]

I'm not a doom/gloom type but one has to at least recognize the impact that technology is going to have on personal arms. Technology moves inexorably forward and when we reach the point where the next great paradigm shift in personal arms occurs...those weapons will likely be well out of the reach of the average person...both by law and by sheer economics.

So as plain old brass cased, powder fired ammunition becomes anachronistic...and laser/gauss/gyrojet/nanobot weapons appear...the 2A will fade in significance.

The likelihood of Average Joe being able to pick up his phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range at his local gun shop is fairly remote.

...IMHO.

 

[twenty711]

LOL

 

[camslam]

Doomed? I doubt it. There will always be anti-gunners out there that will do what they can to rid the world and our country of guns. But after what happened at Virginia Tech, I couldn't have been more shocked.

Despite all the regular anti-gun propaganda, there was actually mainstream media commentators, politicians, and regular everyday people that were standing up for our right to bear arms.

Is the fight over with, not even close, but the tide has definitely turned more in our favor in past years. Think about some of the successess: all but 1 state has some form of conceal carry now, the Castle Doctrine has been passed and implemented in 15+ states, many states as well as our Congress (at least the Senate) have outlawed taking legal citizens firearms during an emergency, these are great successess.

In the end what keeps me comforted is the fact that there are an estimated 200 million + guns in our country and the people that will try to take them, aren't armed nearly as well as we are. The obvious argument to that is the government will be the ones taking them. Every soldier or law enforcement official I have talked to doesn't plan on being a part of disarming our citizens. Let's hope it never comes to that.

 

[Mannlicher]

America will be one of the last, but we too will follow the rest of the world down the path to being a totalitarian state. The right to own arms will be one of the last bulwarks to that progression, so the Second must go.

 

[eltorrente]

Hell No.

I'm not giving up any fight or even argument. Don't give up! If they come for your guns you know what to do.

No, I don't think I know what to do. What should I do? Kill them all? Run for the hills?

Maybe I could just move to another country that is as great as ours currently is. Hmmm.. which one shall it be? Which one has this quality of life and lets everyone walk around locked-and-loaded? Canada? Mexico? Uraguay?

Hopefully it won't come to that, but if it does, I'm not gonna give my life for the right to go to the shooting range.

 

[Cannonball888]

Hopefully it won't come to that, but if it does, I'm not gonna give my life for the right to go to the shooting range.

You think it's all about the right to go to the shooting range? You're obviously new and have a lot to learn.

 

[MIL-DOT]

though i agree with glockmans post about not being defeatist, the original posters question remains. unfortunately the honest,realistic answer is YES.
but i think it may be more defeatist to deny what's happening. after all, who's going to try to fight something they don't see as ever happening ?

 

[CajunBass]

One must also look at the present laws on the books. Is issuing CHLs an improvement? I live in a "shall issue" state that charges me $140 bucks and restricts me with all types of rules/regs/laws about my God given right to arm myself as stated in the constitution.

You're darn right it's an improvement over the previous laws, which made CC a "may issue" permit. Then you had to have a reason (read "money") to hope to get a carry permit. Only those who had enough money to get a judges attention got permits. Or someone who knew somebody, who knew somebody. I'd say "SHALL" issue is a big improvement. No it's not perfect, but wars aren't won all at one time. "Shall issue" is just a battle in the fight toward getting the rights "we" surrendered as a "reasonable compromise" back.

 

[22-rimfire]

The Second Amendment is not doomed and it is about individual rights. Like everything else, the right has changed and the changes have been primarily in relation to cities, counties, and states enacting their own laws. We fought a war over States rights versus the Federal government rights or authority over the states. It's a balancing act and the pendulum swings both ways. Lets keep it swinging toward individual rights.

 

[igpoobah]

We're in better shape than we have been in a while.

However;

It's only a matter of time until the next revolution, when the gubment will have gone too far and we, as citizens, have to reclaim it.

Will it happen in my lifetime? Who knows. But my kids will have my military based weapons.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.

ATTRIBUTION: THOMAS JEFFERSON, letter to William Stephens Smith, November 13, 1787.—The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd, vol. 12, p. 356 (1955).

 

[Black Adder LXX]

I can't answer whether it's doomed or not, but I agree with the natural drift toward socialism comment above. We have to keep fighting. The Kllintons were a bad time, it's better now, so the 'front lines' of the battle shift back and forth. That at least should be an encouraging thought. As far as the collapse of 2A, I might get in trouble for saying something radical but:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

I can't recall where that comes from, but I'm sure they're on a terrorist watch list...

But what do I know...

 

[Redneck with a 40]

With the "sissification" of America, along with liberal indoctrination, I believe that the 2-A is eventually doomed, say in another 20 or 30 years. We represent the culture that the liberal media and liberals in general love to hate. We're constantly on the defensive from their attacks. The good news is, during the last few years, we've been winning! I'm not really sure how long we can continue to hold the line, there is a culture war against us, IMO.

I also follow the principle that "you can have my guns, when you pry them from my cold, dead hands".

 

[twenty711]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

I can't recall where that comes from, but I'm sure they're on a terrorist watch list...

But what do I know...

Bravo!