Quantcast

Is 40 S&W FMJ better than JHP?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by WoodchuckAssassin, Nov 8, 2020.

  1. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,779
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Have you ever had any malfunctions due to exposure to the elements ?

    If not maybe you can put it to the test, say load a mag and fire off a round or two every few mos.

    BTW I do not think there would be any difference between FMJ and premium HP ammo wrt exposure to elements, if anything I would think the premium ammo would be sealed better.
     
  2. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,868
    Location:
    North Central Ohio
    I'd want the gun to shoot when it needed to. When it comes to the question of "placement", most people are referencing which part of the human anatomy is most critical for sustaining life and/or continuing a threat and how close your bullet comes to hitting or "missing" it; not left ventricle vs right ventricle or missing the body altogether.

    I conceded it's an "argument" (which suggests that there are other points of view) and offered reasons to support it. I never said that my point of view is necessarily true, only that there are reasons to suggest it might be and I cited them. I doubt that there is any empirical data available anywhere to prove anything one way or another.
     
  3. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    12,372
    What is your point, then?

    Your argument was

    Have you ever observed and compared compared how different bullets feed in your pistol? Do so, and I think that you will realize that your "argument" is specious.

    There are abundant data that prove (1) that JHP bullets are sufficiently reliable for people to rely upon for survival and (2) that they are the way to go for self defense.

     
    JR24, Monac and SharpDog like this.
  4. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,499
    Location:
    Yakutsk, Sakha Republic
    Some of the BOD's might still have the junky .45jhp's from the past, that fed poorly.

    Then again some old .45fmj (wwb, rem umc) is notoriously weak loaded and doesn't cycle the slide too well. So it's kind of a draw.

    But a Glock 41 would eat those old jhp's right up. It was nose diving 1911's that suffered the most.
     
  5. Monac

    Monac Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,755
    Location:
    Southeast Wisconsin
    I think a person should try different JHPs in their own gun to see if it feeds them to their satisfaction. If it doesn't, well, I think they need a different gun, but if that's not an option, then FMJ makes sense.

    I think if a person is worried about the reduction in reliability caused by using JHP instead of FMJ in any autoloader, then they should get a revolver and load it with HPs.

    I don't mean to be snarky here, but JHPs have been around for 40+ years now. Gun makers really ought to have solved that problem by now. If a person feels they have not, then I don't know why they'd be happy with an autoloading pistol in the first place.
     
  6. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,868
    Location:
    North Central Ohio
    "Abundant" data? Cite them if you will; real, objective tests involving more than a few pistols and more than a few bullet configurations. What do you mean by "sufficiently reliable"?
     
  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    12,372
    All major police departments have been using them for years.

    Every time shots are fired, a rather detailed report is made.

    LEOs discuss these events and their shooting scores and their reliability. Silly stereotypes not withstanding, those things are important to many of them

    Reliable enough for the officers to continue to bet their lives on them.
     
    JR24, Monac, DustyGmt and 1 other person like this.
  8. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,868
    Location:
    North Central Ohio
    Please stop with the condescension. I spent four years as a military policeman and retired from le after thirty years. I've competed in countless Bullseye matches and many, many "tactical" pistol events. I've shot scads of pistols over the past half century and am experienced enough to know what bullet types over time feed best in some pistols and some which don't do so well. There was a time when only hardball could be counted on to feed reliably with most semi-auto pistols but, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, great strides have been made by pistol makers that have made them reliable with many different bullet configurations. Which is why, when offering my opinion, I argued that due to their profile, I believe FMJ bullets are "the least likely to cause trouble when chambering the cartridge"; I never said that any other bullet types were more likely to cause issues.
    My argument is not "specious".
     
    P5 Guy likes this.
  9. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,779
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Say what now ? I would assume that if "A" was least likely then "not A" would be more likely.
     
    JR24 and Monac like this.
  10. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    12,372
    You contradict yourself.
     
    Monac and SharpDog like this.
  11. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,868
    Location:
    North Central Ohio
    "I never said" only means I didn't say it; you can draw your own conclusions. What I believe is that, for all practical purposes, today it doesn't make much difference as to which bullet type is the most likely to feed reliably; yesterday it might have. The pistol I rely on most for edc is a Smith Model 6906, stuffed with 115 grain Jacketed Hollow Point bullets, which has little to do with my belief that hardball bullets are the least likely to cause trouble when chambering a cartridge.
     
  12. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Location:
    Green Mountains Vermont
    If I'm the bad guy, I'm mostly hopeful to be shot with a FMJ as opposed to a JHP, even a poor performing JHP for that matter. I think the JHP is going to create more issues for me in just about every possible case. JHP is a much more problematic scenario for the one shot.
     
  13. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    USA
    Most of my handguns are .40 S&W and they have treated me well for years. All have been solid.
    To keep dealing with ammunition simple, I am inclined to purchase another in this same caliber.

    Many online stories joke about it being a "has been" caliber.
    Is this an utterly crazy purchase to consider at this time? Thoughts?
     
  14. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Location:
    Green Mountains Vermont
    Not a fan of the .40 personally. I predict Wal mart choosing not to stock it anymore may make it a lil harder to come by as Wal mart was the only place I saw that routinely/consistently stocked 250+ round bulk packs of .40 S&W other than online. Aside from some personal preference nitpicks about it that are irrelevant to your question. No, it's not "crazy" to buy a .40 at this time. Not any crazier than buying a 9mm or any other popular handgun caliber. It is one of the most popular, successful handgun cartridges of modern times and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
     
    Blue Jays likes this.
  15. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Location:
    Green Mountains Vermont
    And people who call it a "has been" cartridge probably has more to do with ignorance than anything else. Alot of government agencies have dropped the .40 in favor of the 9mm. That doesn't mean the .40 is a "has been", it's gained a massive loyal following over the last three decades and there are too many millions of .40 guns out there for it to be a "has been".
     
    Blue Jays likes this.
  16. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    16,598
    Location:
    DFW Area
    .40S&W is as good as it has ever been. The change has to do with 9mm ammo becoming available that would reliably pass the FBI protocol; it's not that the .40S&W somehow got worse or less effective.
     
    JR24 and Blue Jays like this.
  17. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    USA
    @DustyGmt and @JohnKSa, thank you for the purchase reassurance. Your posts make sense.
    It seemed easier as calibers in my household include .22, 38/.357, .223/5.56, .40 S&W, and 12-gauge.
    Not that it would be the end of the world to add another caliber...it is just that much more storage.

    Thanks again!
     
  18. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Messages:
    12,574
    FMJs deflect and deform. I'd take a JHP any day of the week, even if penetration is a little lower.
     
    CraigC likes this.
  19. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,188
    Location:
    Phoenix Az
    The 40 isnt going anywhere. It's just losing it's popularity in the LE world because admin has finally realized that it isnt the goldilocks bullet they thought it would be. I believe it's on the low end of the "big bore" group.

    There are still millions of 40 caliber guns out there and it will still live on in police holsters as it does have some advantages over 9mm. Namely performance through barriers such as windshields. There are still a lot of departments out there run by bubba who think 9mm is a sissy caliber and 5.56 is a poodle shooter. Not exaggerating.

    Im a staunch believer that 9mm>40 but that doesnt mean the 40 is a bad round. To me the downsides dont outweigh the benefits. But for someone who wants a more powerful gun than a 9mm but doesnt want to step up to a large frame gun, the 40 is a good option.
     
    JR24, DustyGmt and Blue Jays like this.
  20. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Sixgun Nut

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    19,904
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    No, not even close. Hardball is abysmal, regardless of size. A round lead ball is more effective than hardball.
     
    Driftertank, 1KPerDay and Monac like this.
  21. golden

    golden Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,553
    I have been shooting .40 S&W more than I used to. One reason is that I can find .40 S&W at some of the gun shops I frequent and cannot find 9m.m. Another reason is price. I just bought FEDERAL HST in .40 caliber and it was outrageously expensive at $70.00 for 50 round box. The only thing worse was that a 50 round box of 9m.m. HST was $110.00!

    For me, the main limitation on the .40 caliber has been recoil. I only shoot .40 caliber in heavier, metal framed guns like the BERETTA 96 or STOEGER 8040. Both of these guns weigh over 2 pounds and that keeps the recoil within my tolerances.

    Jim
     
  22. Driftertank

    Driftertank Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    779
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Reasons i always load good JHP for carry:

    1. Pistols SUCK for stopping power, relatively speaking. Caliber arguments are generally pointless, IMO, as any round capable of developing enough energy to reliably incapacitate in one or two rounds would be far too powerful to be controllable in a firearm that's readily concealable for civilian carry. That being the case, when a relatively slow bullet passes through tissue, it only damages tissue that it comes in direct contact with, which means that, while shot placement is the most critical factor, if you can increase the cross-sectional area of the projectile, it improves your chances of hitting something vital.

    2. Even if a JHP bullet fails to expand, assuming weight and velocity are the same, it's WORST CASE scenario performance is that it will perform exactly like an FMJ bullet. After all, JHPs don't get any smaller when they don't expand.

    3. Most pistols designed or built since the late 70s or early 80s have been designed to reliably cycle JHP rounds...and modern JHP rounds typically have an ogive and cavity meant to be useful even in guns NOT designed for them. I have never personally experienced a malfunction in a handgun directly attributable to using JHP vs FMJ bullets, even in my 1911. Though, admittedly, it is a modernized version of a 1911.


    TL;DR version, unless your firearm has exhibited any sort of unreliability when loaded with JHP bullets, there's really no good reason apart from price and availability to use FMJ instead of JHP in a modern, decently made handgun.

    Just my opinion, of course, but an opinion supported by a lot of evidence on the part of people who learned the hard way. Not me, fortunately, but if my a$$ is ever on the line, i want every advantage i can get...
     
    Monac likes this.
  23. film495

    film495 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2019
    Messages:
    1,164
    for the most part I carry ball ammo. I carry ball ammo in a little .32 ACP, so - when I carry a larger cartridge I figure it's just that much bigger and faster, and I don't really have the time, nrg, or money to experiment shooting various boutique HP ammo to see if it works correctly or not. I also practice with ball ammo, and it functions and that is what I care about - if I need it to - it will reliably poke really nasty holes in whatever I'm pointing at, and I'm not looking for a merit badge, just to protecty myself if I need to. Is hollow point better? Probably, but - as referenced in this thread earlier, if all the officers had loaded ball fmj ammo during the Miami Dade shootout, that one bullet would have penetrated further, and it would not be a famous event. No matter the choice, you are always tradin off one thing for another, just go with what makes sense for you.
     
  24. Caplock

    Caplock Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    170
    This thread and the discussion seems really familiar for some reason?

    Thanks OP....got a lot of answers I was looking for as well and enjoyed the read.
     
    CDW4ME likes this.
  25. Caplock

    Caplock Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    170
    Also if you want deeper penetration from your 40 xtp bullets usually do better.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice