Is a .38 Special S&W 686 possible?

[Riomouse911]

As the guys said above, for the right amount of $$ just about anything is possible. As for practical, I guess that’s determined by how deep your pockets are.

The firing of .38 Special in .357 revolvers like your 686 is perfectly fine, if that’s what you shoot in it fire away with confidence. If you reload, loading .38 Special powered loads in .357 cases is an option, as are “mid level” .357 loads that are a bit more stout than the Specials but not as abusing as full house magnum loads. There are a few pluses of shooting the magnum cases in the magnum chamber of the 686; the bullet has a bit less jump to the forcing cone which may help accuracy ( I personally don’t shoot well enough to tell if that’s true), you only need one case and there is little adjusting of your reloading set up, and the longer case doesn’t leave the ring in the chambers that the shorter .38 cases can leave after a long day of shooting.

The big, heavy L frame S&W .357 will soak up the recoil of .38 loads and it will give decades of service doing so.

As for K frames and .38 Specials, there is something extra fun about shooting .38 loads through those guns. Maybe it’s all in my head, but the smaller/lighter frame and non-lugged barrels really do fit together perfectly with the round itself. I have several .38 Special-chambered K frame S&W’s (Pre 10 M&P, 14(3),15, 64 & 67) and a Colt Officers Model Heavy Barrel that receive a lot of my attention at the range. My favorite .38 load of 4.5 gr Unique and a 158 gr SWC shoots well in all of them.

In my .357’s, of which I also have several (S&W 13,19, 65, 66(2) K frames, Ruger GP-100, Dan Wesson 15-2(2 w/5 barrels) and an L frame 686+ 7-shot) I bump the Unique charge up to 6 gr and it is wonderfully accurate and very easy shooting.

Whatever you choose to do is the right answer, as there is no wrong one. I will say if you do get a custom .38 cylinder for your 686, please take some pictures and let us know how it shoots!

Stay safe.

 

[GRIZ22]

Not to worry. Clean your gun regularly. I've fired thousands of rounds in a 357. No problems.

 

[GRIZ22]

Clean your revolver regularly.

 

[Tallball]

I must've owned a dozen 357 revolvers over the years, and all of them shot more 38's than 357's.

I have yet to notice that my 357 revolvers shoot 38's less accurately. Spending 30 seconds on each cylinder while cleaning it will ensure that there's no "carbon ring" left from the 38 rounds.

Strange project to spend a bunch of money on, IMHO.

 

[halfmoonclip]

As for K frames and .38 Specials, there is something extra fun about shooting .38 loads through those guns. Maybe it’s all in my head, but the smaller/lighter frame and non-lugged barrels really do fit together perfectly with the round itself.

This. I've scored some old M64 Smiths, and they are a ball with full charge wadcutters. Like baby bear's porridge, they are 'just right'. A Tyler T grip gives you a real retro revo.
For the OP, the .38s in a .357 is a non issue; not to worry.
Moon

 

[LonesomePigeon]

Thanks for all the replies. I called Smith & Wesson and they said they can't do it. I just wanted it because it appeals to my sense of perfection. There is a tiny gun shop near me crammed full of old guns, ran by an older gentleman who used to shoot all types of competitions, muzzleloader, bullseye, military rifles. He says he's done ransom rest tests and there is a small but statistically significant reduction of accuracy in shooting .38 Special out of a .357 Magnum cylinder. I'm sure it not enough of a difference for my shooting but like I said it just appeals to my sense of perfection. Plus I like guns with some heft. The first gun I ever owned was a Colt Walker replica. I guess I will have keep an eye out for an affordably priced 38/44 Outdoorsman, is such an animal exists.

 

[Anchorite]

I just don't see the point of a .38 special chambering on a big K or L frame revolver.

Over the years I've owned a dozen revolvers chambered for the .357; Smith's & Rugers but no Colts. All of them have shot .38 spl loads at least as accurately as my best .357 handloads...and with target full wadcutters, the .38's were a hair more accurate.

Too, I've had no difficulty keeping the chambers clean enough after firing a boat load of the shorter rounds, to allow .357 length rounds to chamber easily. The key is to clean after you shoot....while I've never put 200 rounds of .38 special through one of my magnums in a single range session, I have shot 100 before cleaning and it was no problem.

In fact, my carry load for my Smith M-60, a 3" bbl'd .357, is Speer's 135 gr Gold Dot .38 Spl +P load. I like it not only for its expansion/penetration performance, and also for its easier ejection than the magnum length cases.

I will admit that in the last year, I found a .38 Special M-67 Smith LEO turn-in, that's an absolute joy to carry. It's got that lighter weight bbl., lighter than the M-66 or 19, balances well and has arguably the smoothest DA trigger I've ever found on a Smith...no small feat that! With it, I can load 148 gr. target wadcutters at 750 fps for plinking and paper, or upshift to LSWC's to the old "FBI" load: 158 gr at 900 fps+. All of that notwithstanding, it's no more accurate that a pair of M-66's, a trio of M-19's, one 686 and 4 Ruger BH's that I've had.

Given the add'l weight of a 686, I really don't see the need...YMMv, Rod

Amen.

 

[Styx]

He says he's done ransom rest tests and there is a small but statistically significant reduction of accuracy in shooting .38 Special out of a .357 Magnum cylinder.

How many different examples with their their own set of 38 and 357 cylinders did he test? Was all the testing done with the same revolver, barrel, and ammo, but with the cylinders switch out? If not, it's a useless comparison IMHO. I can see a difference in velocity, but logically, not really a "statistically significant" difference in accuracy.

One last thing, if he's shooting a 38 special load and a 357 load out of the same cylinder to compare accuracy, that's says more about the ammo than 38 vs 357 cylinders.

 

[LonesomePigeon]

"Was all the testing done with the same revolver, barrel, and ammo, but with the cylinders switch out?"

That is a good question. To be honest, I don't remember the details. I just remember he said he shot a lot of groups, like 50 groups with each type of ammo. I go to his shop mostly to look at all the old guns. Here is a pic of his shop, a cluttered mess but there are some really neat guns in there and he seems to know a ton of stuff about them.

 

[Johnm1]

like I said it just appeals to my sense of perfection. Plus I like guns with some heft.......... I guess I will have keep an eye out for an affordably priced 38/44 Outdoorsman, is such an animal exists.

I think that is a noble cause. Maybe call it a quest. And it will be a Don Quixote type of quest if you're trying to put 38/44 Outdoorsman and an affordable price together. But sometimes the hunt is as enjoyable than the harvest.

"Sancho, my armour! "

 

[ms6852]

You can load 38 special loads into your .357 case. It will move the bullet close to the cone and also the pressures would be less than the .357. I would recommend that you load enough to keep velocity at about 800 to 825 fps and you should be good to go. No need to spend a ton of money to convert a .357 to a 38.

 

[Ru4real]

All of my 357 hand loads are loaded at 1.50” loaded cartridge length in 38 Special brass. So, longer than 38 but shorter than 357. All bullet weights, 110, 125, 158, 180, etc. All powder types 2400, 110/296, AA9, Titegroup, etc.

Most are loaded to about 20k pressure, which is higher than 38 but less than 357. Some are loaded to about 30k pressure.

All are 100% reliable in my Colt, Kimber, S&W revolvers and Rossi lever guns, most of which are stamped 357 but a couple are 38 only. I have zero 357 mag cases but over a thousand 38 special cases. I don’t do factory loads.

Here is a great plinking, practice and hunting load costing about $12.50 per 50 rounds because 0.10 cent primers

MBC 180 Grain Pugnose Hi-Tek coated bullet (Missouribullet.com)
4.0 grains Titegroup powder
Magnum small pistol primer (tighter groups compared to non magnum)
38 Special brass
1.50” loaded length, roll crimped

820 fps from 4” barrel
840 fps from 6” barrel
970 fps from 16” barrel

 

[CajunBass]

Some years ago, I bought a Smith and Wesson Model 19-8, that was marked on the barrel, "38 SPECIAL ONLY." And it was a Model 19. Ejector rod shroud, adjustable sights, everything you'd expect a Model 19 to be, except for that barrel marking. Story was they were ordered special for a police department in South American who wanted Model 19's, but wanted them in 38 Special only for reasons only they know. If you're willing to pay, Smith and Wesson will make.

This was at the end of the Model 19's run, maybe even after, but before the reintroduction in 2018 IIRC. They put these guns together using what parts they had left over. Then the order got canceled and S&W released them to the US market as "38 Specials." Some were actually chambered for 38's only, but a lot of them apparently would in fact chamber 357 in spite of the "38 Special" markings. The one I had would in fact chamber the 357, which sort of disappointed me. There was quite a debate over rather it was safe to actually use 357 ammo in the ones that would chamber it. Were they the same 357 cylinders as always? Smith and Wesson would only say they were 38 only. I'm sure they just wished they would go away. Personally I was convinced the only difference was the roll mark on the barrel. I have no doubt they used up the existing stock of 357 cylinders, just to get rid of them, before/if they even thought about working on cylinders bored for 38 only.

I shot mine a bit, with 38's, but then sold it with full disclosure of the backstory as I knew it. Fellow who got it said he too planned to only shoot 38's. I've never seen another. I sort of wish I'd held onto it now. According to SCSW only 220 or so were made.

 

[Styx]

Some years ago, I bought a Smith and Wesson Model 19-8, that was marked on the barrel, "38 SPECIAL ONLY." And it was a Model 19. Ejector rod shroud, adjustable sights, everything you'd expect a Model 19 to be, except for that barrel marking. Story was they were ordered special for a police department in South American who wanted Model 19's, but wanted them in 38 Special only for reasons only they know. If you're willing to pay, Smith and Wesson will make.

This was at the end of the Model 19's run, maybe even after, but before the reintroduction in 2018 IIRC. They put these guns together using what parts they had left over. Then the order got canceled and S&W released them to the US market as "38 Specials." Some were actually chambered for 38's only, but a lot of them apparently would in fact chamber 357 in spite of the "38 Special" markings. The one I had would in fact chamber the 357, which sort of disappointed me. There was quite a debate over rather it was safe to actually use 357 ammo in the ones that would chamber it. Were they the same 357 cylinders as always? Smith and Wesson would only say they were 38 only. I'm sure they just wished they would go away. Personally I was convinced the only difference was the roll mark on the barrel. I have no doubt they used up the existing stock of 357 cylinders, just to get rid of them, before/if they even thought about working on cylinders bored for 38 only.

I shot mine a bit, with 38's, but then sold it with full disclosure of the backstory as I knew it. Fellow who got it said he too planned to only shoot 38's. I've never seen another. I sort of wish I'd held onto it now. According to SCSW only 220 or so were made.

Would 357 rounds even fit in a 38 only revolver? I would think not. I never tried and I don't reload, but I have attempted to put 357 snap caps into a 38 only revolver with no luck.

I strongly suspect that your old model 19 and the older 38 only Model 686s had 357 barrels and cylinders still. S&W just put "38 SPECIAL ONLY" on the barrel to appease departs that were only allowed to fire 38 special.

 

[CajunBass]

Would 357 rounds even fit in a 38 only revolver? I would think not. I never tried and I don't reload, but I have attempted to put 357 snap caps into a 38 only revolver with no luck.

I strongly suspect that your old model 19 and the older 38 only Model 686s had 357 barrels and cylinders still. S&W just put "38 SPECIAL ONLY" on the barrel to appease departs that were only allowed to fire 38 special.

A 357 shouldn't fit into a 38 Special chamber. The case is a little longer, about a 1/10 of inch or so. That was to prevent it from being chambered in older 38 revolvers that weren't strong enough for the 357 pressure. Same for the 44special/44magnum.

I agree. That Model 19 was a 38 only in the roll mark. I understand from people who asked, Smith and Wesson said they were only 38 Specials, even if 357 would fit, but I'm sure they were simply playing CYA. Production on the Model 19 had officially stopped in November of 1999, and the guns I'm talking about were put together in March of 2000 (IIRC) with whatever parts they had left in the parts bin. Apparently at least some were shipped that really were chambered for 38 special, so they all became 38 specials as far as the company was concerned. Use something else at your own risk I suppose.

 

[ThomasT]

Or, load light loads in a 357 case which is the way I go. Best of both worlds.

Thats what I would do and I do it. For less than the price of a new cylinder you can get a simple reloading outfit if you don't already reload. If you don't reload now is a good time to start. Starting 4-5 years ago was a better time to start reloading when components were cheap and plentiful. You can get a simple Lee "O" frame press and dies and a few other tools and be ready to load your own.

I like to load a 158gr lead bullet in 357 cases with a load of Unique powder. Somewhere around 6grs and you have a nice load above 38+P in power without a full power 357 load. Those are fun to shoot and will put a hurt on bigger targets like possums and armadillos. Of course you can just use 38 special data in 357 cases and have good all around shooting loads. Light loads like that and you brass will last for many loadings and then when the next shortage hits you won't be paying scalper prices for ammo. If you can even find ammo to buy. And there will be another shortage. Count on it.

 

[v8stang289]

Just offering a guide, especially revolvers designed with adjustable sights like the 686 and within the S&W family. The 10, 12, 64 just don't fit in, they being strictly service revolvers and not usually with 6-inch barrels. Did I offend you?

You're good, man. You were 100% offering advice and were spot on in your recommendations.
fxvr5 is just a butthurt dumbf#ck, out to cause drama, and the only person I've put on my ignore list in 17 years on this forum.

 

[Styx]

To all that are suggesting that the OP simply loads light 357 mag, have you inquired if the OP even reloads? I don't believe that he does.... Buying a bunch of expensive reloading equipment and supplies just to only load light de facto 38 special disguised as 357 mag also makes no sense.

It's all pointless as there aren't really any downsides to not simply shooting 38 special through a 357 magnum cylinder in the first place, and I SERIOUSLY doubt that the information that he got about there being a "statistically significant reduction of accuracy in shooting .38 Special out of a .357 Magnum cylinder" is accurate information.

Seems like everyone is looking for complicated and expensive solutions to a problems that don't exist in the first place. Plus the OP stated he likes revolvers with heft, so he less interested in the lighter weight J and K frames others are recommending and that the OP already knew were options.

 

[Jim Watson]

I know I am not a good enough shot to tell, but I only made Expert in PPC with a Python shooting .38 wadcutters. A couple of the guys in the Colt Nuts team got up into Master.

 

[reddog81]

To all that are suggesting that the OP simply loads light 357 mag, have you inquired if the OP even reloads? I don't believe that he does.... Buying a bunch of expensive reloading equipment and supplies just to only load light de facto 38 special disguised as 357 mag also makes no sense.

It's all pointless as there aren't really any downsides to not simply shooting 38 special through a 357 magnum cylinder in the first place, and I SERIOUSLY doubt that the information that he got about there being a "statistically significant reduction of accuracy in shooting .38 Special out of a .357 Magnum cylinder" is accurate information.

Seems like everyone is looking for complicated and expensive solutions to a problems that don't exist in the first place. Plus the OP stated he likes revolvers with heft, so he less interested in the lighter weight J and K frames others are recommending and that the OP already knew were options.

That what I was thinking. To turn a 686 into a .38 Special all it takes is to be using .38 Special ammo. That’s it. You will never notice any difference.

Every normal .38 special bullet is longer than 1/8 of an inch. The front of the bullet will be in the cylinder throat before rear of the bullet leaves the case.

 

[Anchorite]

Seems like everyone is looking for complicated and expensive solutions to a problems that don't exist in the first place.

Wait ….. (checks that he’s logged into THR)….isn't this what we do at THR every day???

 

[Japle]

No point whatsoever in having a .38 SPL cylinder for a 686. I've fired many thousands of light .38 Short Colt loads through my 686s and my 5" 327.
I use the 327 for competition and a 158 gr RN flat-point jacketed bullet at 635 fps is super-accurate and leaves nothing much in the chambers. Easy to clean.
Lead .38 SPL loads will leave some residue, but nothing important.

 

[film495]

can't imagine it would be that hard to just get a .38 Special cylinder for one, and have a smith install and time it.

 

[drobs]

Add one of these chamber scrapers to your cleaning kit if you are worried about lead / carbon build up in your 357 magnum chambers:

Slixprings, LLC

Safely remove carbon and lead that collects in the chambers and cylinders of 327 Fed Mag, 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 10MM and 45 colt revolvers and rifles

www.slixprings.com

 

[P5 Guy]

I believe S&W did make some of the Model 686s in 38 S&W Special for export. A vague memory but as I have little use for an L frame, I am at a loss for the source of my information.

Kevin

I thought it was the 681. A special run for a police force.