Is a FFP scope worth the extra $$$?

[Rockrivr1]

I'm getting ready to take a long range shooting class that got me back to thinking about replacing my scope on my FN Special Police in 308. I have a nice Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x40mm Adj Objective Tactical scope on her now, but made the mistake of getting the duplex reticle instead of something like mildot. It's great for plinking but not really functional enough when trying to estimate distance. This class will have targets at unknown distances up to 800 yards so I'll want to have something like Mildot for this.

As I've been looking at quality options I'm heavily leaning towards a FFP scope instead a SFP. Though I'm wondering what people think about the FFP option and if you think it's worth the extra $$ to go in that direction?

Right now I'm thinking this Vortex Viper PST scope will replace my Leupold. Long range shooting forums and Sniper's Hide have glowing reviews for this particular scope even though it's less expensive then some of the more well known glass makers.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product...fp-riflescope-with-ebr-1-mrad-reticle/reticle

 

[taliv]

it depends entirely on what you plan to do with it. if it's just for the class, then ask the instructor. if you want to shoot a lot of practical/field/UKD stuff, then there's no question, FFP is the only way to go. If you are more into something like f-class, then some of the SFP scopes may be better. for plinking, i'm not sure it matters.

 

[Highcaliber]

The scope you listed should serve you well. The main advantage of the (FFP) first focal plane optics is the ability to calculate range and holds for wind or elevation, at any magnification. The reticle will appear to "grow" as magnification is dialed up, thus maintaining the reticle subtensions at any zoom setting. Perfect for ranging targets at the "unknown distances" like you stated.

To streamline your calculations, just make sure that the turrets and the reticle are in the same units. Mil/Mil or Moa/Moa, depending on your preference. I prefer MIL/MIL.

SFP reticles are only calibrated for ranging at a pre-determined magnification setting, which is usually the highest magnification setting for that particular SFP scope.

Others might chime in with additional input.

 

[yugorpk]

Ive got an FFP scope and to be honest I do'nt like it all that much. High mag the reticle is too fat and low mag it is too small. Most scopes get cranked up all the way for anything past 75 yards anyway so its really not that much of an issue if its second focal plane anyway..

 

[rcmodel]

What he said.

I have only owned one in my life, and didn't keep it very long.

At low power, the X-hair was too small to see on running coyotes.
And at high power it was too course at 500 yards to see a coyote hiding behind it!

rc

 

[taliv]

oh good grief. that's ridiculous.

the vortex gen2 i'm using has a reticle that subtends .03 mils. that's roughly 0.54 inches at 500 yards. the S&B P4 is .04, as is the vortex PST reticle.

so either you've got some pretty small yotes out there in KS or you guys have some really crappy scopes.

most scopes may get used cranked all the way up, but that would only be because most people who own guns have no idea how to use them. most shooters in practical matches like the PRS have scopes that top out at 18x, 25x or 27x or 30x but they'll shoot most stages in the 12x to 15x range.

and they all use the FFP feature to hold for elevation and wind. ranging with the reticle is quite rare and practically useless.

 

[rcmodel]

oh good grief. that's ridiculous.

Thats pretty harsh!!

I didn't say it was a recent high dollar target scope.
And I didn't say it cost more then the gun did back then.

I just reported my experience with the only one I ever owned 25 years ago.

rc

 

[AKElroy]

Others have chimed in on the FFP vs standard reticle, so I won't comment on what I know little about. What I do know is that Leupold will replace your duplex with whatever reticle you want for much less cash than buying new. I have the exact scope you have, and I had them replace the duplex with thier varmint reticle for $130 or so. Took 2-3 weeks.

 

[farmerboy78]

I agree with taliv about everything except using the reticle for ranging. I use a rangefinder in conjunction with using my reticle to learn to range with only my reticle. But I mainly use it to push for my wind call. And being ffp, the distances don't change and are consistent.

 

[taliv]

At low power, the X-hair was too small to see on running coyotes.
And at high power it was too course at 500 yards to see a coyote hiding behind it!

rcmodel, i think you're misremembering or the scope wasn't functioning properly.
how could those statements possibly both be true? the reticle shrinks and grows with the image. if the coyote is hiding behind it at max power, the coyote is still hiding behind it at minimum power.

 

[Driftertank]

I have 2 FFP Viper PSTs, a 2.5-10×32 on a semiauto .308, and a 4-16×50 on my heavy barreled 7mm.

I like them a lot. Rapid holdover and wind adjustment is a breeze, and I've been able to pretty accurately estimate range to objects of known size using only the reticle and a calculator....within 5yds at 850, in one instance. The reticle does get pretty small at minimum magnification, but it's bordered by thick duplex bars, and the graduated portion can be illuminated, so it's not really that much of a handicap, in my experience.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, I am probably mis remembering.

If I recall at all, it was one of the very early Weavers, or Redfields??

But I do remember the x-hairs were nearly invisible at 3x and too thick for long range accuracy at full power.

But like I said, that was then, and it made me to gun-shy to ever buy another FFP scope again.

I'm sure you are right, and it am wrong, based on that one early FFP scope.

rc

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

Let's put it this way.... You go to that class using a 4-16x SFP scope. On that day the mirage is horrible and you can't use anything past 10x and still see clearly. Remember your reticle is only correct at 16x. You are engaging multiple targets in at various ranges and want to hold for the wind instead of dialing since the wind is variable. Your wind call is 1.4 mils.

What do you hold on the reticle at 10x magnification for 1.4 mils knowing the reticle is not correct at that magnification?

Still operating at 10x you're shooting at the 800yard target and you're reticle shows half a mil low. Knowing it's not 1/2 mil at 10X what do you need to actually dial on your scope to correct and hit the target? (Sure you can just hold over and make the hit but what if you need to know the precise hold for your data book or to true your ballistic computer).

Can't answer off the top of your head and need a calculator to figure it out? Exactly my point! With a FFP at 10x your reticle is still correct and you hardly need to think about it much less use a calculator to figure out your holds. You can run into the same problem ranging too having to find out the reticle to get your range.

For real long range shooting FFP is a must. For most hunters and weekend plinking a SFP will work just fine.

 

[CaliCoastie]

I've got a vortex viper pst 2.5-10 ffp scope. Works great for my hunting needs, low power I'll throw the illumination on. Rarely go over about 5-7 power.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Thanks everyone, this has been very informative. I also didn't know that about Leupold changing out the reticle. Another option to think about as well. Though I think for this class I'm going to get this Vortex scope. I want to start learning more on shooting long range with this class and then go on from there so I should get the proper equipment to do so.

 

[taliv]

you should really talk to the instructor. when i took clint smith's precision rifle class at thunder ranch when it was back in the texas hill country, everyone in the class had SFP scopes and we didn't do anything in 5 full days of shooting that suggested SFP was inadequate for the task. but that was a long time ago, so maybe it's changed too.
back then it was all about databooks and cleaning your rifle every 20 rounds and whatnot. I think it's fascinating how expectations have changed over the past 15 years.

 

[MtnCreek]

You current scope with a new mil dot reticle is going to have a few issues. It probably doesn't have turrets that are marked. Probably not much elevation change per revolution (liable to get lost on how many revolutions). Is MOA, but you're reading corrections in mils. SFP, so you'll have to use it at 14x for holds and reading corrections.