The proof is in all the crappy HK clones out there versus the originals that work like clockwork. On the other hand it is you you have offered no proof whosoever that the design is inefficient and obsolete.
Citing a couple of threads on an HK forum is not proof that the clones are inferior. I can dig up a hundred complaint/problem threads on any given weapon in the world-the plural of anecdote is not data. This is fundamental logic here.
As for the design, the fact that it requires chamber fluting to work is the first issue. The fact that it tends to have increased recoil, tears up brass upon ejection, and generally has been abandoned by every single modern firearm designer in the world should be known as a "clue". Your only assertion to the contrary is the completely unsubstantiated claim that HK is the only company in the world capable of successfully building them. This is what psychologists call an irrational belief.
I don't claim to be a spectacular shooter but I can dump a 20 round mag in a G3 in FA while holding it on target. It took some practice but it's not difficult. Where is the proof that no one uses 7.62 in full auto. If a truck full of explosives was bearing down on a soldier with a 7.62 rifle, he wouldn't use semi.
You've pretty much just conceded that whole point on your own to anyone who's served in the Army or Marines.
Talk about unsubstantiated opinion. You just took the prize.
Okay, let's take the 416. HK is the only company in the
world, to the best of my knowledge, who felt it was absolutely necessary to re-design the entire AR bolt group to incorporate a firing pin safety. Four decades of development, manufacturing, and deployment of ARs on the part of dozens of companies and countries around the world, and suddenly it's necessary to redesign the entire heart of the weapon to solve a non-existent problem. And that's not even getting into their
downright insane decision to redesign the mag well, so as to prevent anyone from inserting polymer magazines (Of course, strangely enough HK has an overbuilt and overpriced steel magazine of their own design that does fit the 416...). When you go screwing around with a design and wind up adding parts, cost, and weight, for essentially no gain whatsoever, there's a Problem. One can argue as to whether the gas piston AR has merit or not, but at least there's a semi-legitimate reason there for it. The same can't be said for various other aspects of the rifle.
Most countries that adopted the AK-47 did not do it by free choice so your point is moot. Nothing wrong with a good AK though.
There are plenty of countries that voluntarily adopted the AK on its own virtue. India, Finland, Israel, South Africa..any of those ring a bell?
Again, you are showing more of your unfounded bias. What's wrong with ARs?
There is no unfounded bias (nice try though), I just like shooting a variety of weapons, and ARs are ordinary.
If you really think that then you are seriously disconnected from reality. Macs have always been one step above junk and the price they fetch is proof of that.
You've quite obviously never shot a Lage MAX-10. I'll take one over an MP5 any day of the week.
I like the roller delayed blowback for its simplicity of operation and secondly it does not impart any asymmetrical or rotational force on the receiver, which helps accuracy.
As I've stated before, I just want to see this legendary action given a proper home in a modern battle rifle receiver.
Just what loss in accuracy is caused by a rotating bolt? Can anyone please quantify it?
I own a CETME, the recoil is strong but not sharp, which makes it very controllable, it actually feels softer than my Krebs KTR-08s Saiga AK.
If one cannot handle the recoil on a CETME, one is holding the rifle wrong, especially that guy who said it bruised him.
I know people who think that .375 H&H Magnum is a light and comfy caliber. I agree that you're probably doing something wrong if you're being seriously bruised by a .308.
Let me repeat..
AS far as the reliability of the MP5.. Per Frank James MP5 book "project 64"
NASA owned a MP5 that shot over 571,000 rounds before being decommisioned. The MP5 SN 316019 went in service August of 1984 and come out October of 1992.
And what was the number of Mean Rounds Between Failure? The information you provide simply says that NASA fired half a million rounds through the weapon...it provides zero information as to how well the firearm
performed throughout that period.
There have been a few design blunders over the years, the Chauchat and original SA80 come to mind, but almost all of the battle rifles that have been fielded in quantity are decent weapons deserving of respect in their own right.
The M1 Garand, MAS 49/56, FN-49, SKS, and Ljungman are all rifles that did quite well in their time, but are simply
obsolete in the world today. Yes, they work well. Yes, they all have long and illustrious histories (mostly). But that doesn't mean that they're better than a modern rifle that has the benefit of half a century of design improvements.
As Cap'n Jack Burntbeard pointed out, one of the real advantages of roller lock design is it's lack of asymmetrical or rotational force on the receiver.
You could make a symmetrical piston but it would have high reciprocating weight unless you could made it mostly from carbon fiber or some other high tech material.
So, you would loose the symmetrical advantage by using a piston, but still have no rotational force. Of course the SKS, FAL and VZ58 also have no rotational force so you might just be re-inventing the wheel. Both Stoner with the AR and HK with the G36 did keep rotational mass to a minimum because the lack of twisting motion does improve follow up shot and full auto controllability.
The M14 and to a lesser extent the AK are rifles that have a little to much rotating mass for their own good.
The question is, with the small rotational mass in a AR, would there be a noticeable advantage by getting rid of it.
What is it with this fascination on non-rotating bolts? The AR platform uses a rotating bolt, and it's widely considered one of (if not the) most potentially-accurate common selfloading rifle platforms around today. Realistically, there's strong evidence that it's just not physically possible to improve the accuracy of an autoloader beyond that of what a good AR can already do. Accuracy problems with the M14 can be traced largely back to bedding issues with the stock.
I've yet to see any evidence that a roller locking rifle has any intrinsic accuracy potential over that of an AR, or a well-made gas piston design.
So much misinformation. This is why people on other boards think The High Road is a joke of a forum.
Indeed.
