Is a Spikes AR $200 better than a S&W M&P Sport?
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kwelz
Member
Actual Chrome line barrel, 1/7 twist. A proper upper. Yeah it is worth the difference. And this is from someone who doesn't like Spikes.
sansone
Member
kinda depends on your needs. example:
will the extra $200 bother you?
do you need the extra features?
you get the idea
will the extra $200 bother you?
do you need the extra features?
you get the idea
12131
Member
In terms of materials and testing alone, absolutely.
courtgreene
Member
If you want to shoot heavy bullets, yes. If you don't care about that and won't shoot enough for chrome lining to matter, no.
I went with palmetto state armory, so I don't have a dog in the fight.
I went with palmetto state armory, so I don't have a dog in the fight.
chris in va
Member
Don't forget, you have to wait about three months for the Spikes.
I was mulling over one but couldn't justify all the 'proper' stuff that adds cost and got the Sport.
Oh, about the twist...the Sport is 1/8.
I was mulling over one but couldn't justify all the 'proper' stuff that adds cost and got the Sport.
Oh, about the twist...the Sport is 1/8.
Short answer:
Yes.
Long answer:
1:7 twist rifling. Chrome lined barrel and bolt carrier. HP and MPI testing.
The M&P Sport has none of this. It also doesn't have a dust cover, bolt assist, or the ability to change trigger guards. Frankly, the Spikes rifles and uppers are priced very well for what you get.
Yes.
Long answer:
1:7 twist rifling. Chrome lined barrel and bolt carrier. HP and MPI testing.
The M&P Sport has none of this. It also doesn't have a dust cover, bolt assist, or the ability to change trigger guards. Frankly, the Spikes rifles and uppers are priced very well for what you get.
DenaliPark
member
Almost anything is better than a S&W M&P sport....
FlyinBryan
Member
why dont you like spikes?
Depends on what you plan to use it for. For a general range plinker I doubt the $200 buys you $200 more utility. If this is going to be a go-to gun for classes or competition, the spike's is going to be the better option. For HD, I will say that either should be good to go, unless you are planning to get into protracted firefights. Just make sure it goes bang each time.
Remember, the Best is a relative term. Is a BMW 7-series a better car then a Toyota Camry? Yes, is it a better grocery getter and drive to work 30 minutes every day car? Doubtful.
Remember, the Best is a relative term. Is a BMW 7-series a better car then a Toyota Camry? Yes, is it a better grocery getter and drive to work 30 minutes every day car? Doubtful.
Hanzo581
Member
Unless you plan on going to war with it it is a good value. Check out this review.
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/0...ger/-gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp15-sport/
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/0...ger/-gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp15-sport/
kwelz
Member
The owner for one. He is a class A Jerk. The company jacked up prices when Obama won office. True many companies raised prices but their was extreme and they blamed it on suppliers. Their suppliers actually came out and called them on the lie.
More recently is their supposed proof that they do the proper testing, etc on their guns. It was a bit to perfect. Showed no failures whatsoever, etc. I know of at least one person who purchased one of their rifles just to have it tested. Turned out that it didn't meet the advertised specs.
So when it comes to Spikes I pass. I actually have a gun build on a upper/lower matched set from spikes and have a couple lowers sitting around for a rainy day. But I avoid their complete rifles.
For someone looking for a budget rifle however they are far superior to DPMS, Bushy, Oly, etc. So I will recommend them for those people although I still suggest spending a bit more for the DD or BCM.
Im not a fan of Spikes either. They got too big too fast, and can't handle it. Their lowers were pretty, dont know if they still are. My SBR upper looks like i could send it back to Century and they could do a better job.
If you just want an AR to punch paper then get the M+P. It will serve you well, and if it doesn't, S+W will make it right. If you want something you can trust in a post apocalyptic fantasy, then look at BCM. Ive run it suppressed, dry, tried to make it fail......short of using it as a prybar.....did i mention its a lightweight upper? I can do 3 MOA with it. My buddy can do 1 MOA. (Yeah...bastard outshot me with my own gun.)
There are others that are just as good and I would trust, but I haven't had the chance to try them personally. I own several Larue products and when funds present themselves I will fork over the green for one of their uppers. I am looking forward to trying the Noveske line in AR-10 as well.
But for now Bravo Company gets the highest bang for the buck factor...FOR ME. Fit and finish is very nice. Everything seems well made. I know the gun shoots better than I do. I plan on replacing my Spikes with one.
If you just want an AR to punch paper then get the M+P. It will serve you well, and if it doesn't, S+W will make it right. If you want something you can trust in a post apocalyptic fantasy, then look at BCM. Ive run it suppressed, dry, tried to make it fail......short of using it as a prybar.....did i mention its a lightweight upper? I can do 3 MOA with it. My buddy can do 1 MOA. (Yeah...bastard outshot me with my own gun.)
There are others that are just as good and I would trust, but I haven't had the chance to try them personally. I own several Larue products and when funds present themselves I will fork over the green for one of their uppers. I am looking forward to trying the Noveske line in AR-10 as well.
But for now Bravo Company gets the highest bang for the buck factor...FOR ME. Fit and finish is very nice. Everything seems well made. I know the gun shoots better than I do. I plan on replacing my Spikes with one.
JPG19
Member
I admittedly don't know much about AR's as I only just recently purchased my first (a Spikes upper and Spikes lower) but I'm a bit surprised by the anti-Spiker's out there. The gun seems terrific, I've heard nothing but great things about them, and they do everything that all of the AR-guru's I talked to told me to look for (lifetime warranty, 1:7 twist, M4 feed ramps, proper steels, HP test and MP inspected, etc, etc). Seems to me like someone saying they don't like Glock, minus the "they're ugly" argument because, of course, most AR's look the same initially. Also, rather than waiting three months, I went to my local GS and purchased the upper and lower that I wanted and bada-bing-bada-boom, had a complete rifle right then and there.
FlyinBryan
Member
lol, you really cant go by what you saw with one rifle
ive seen 3 daniel defense rifles that choked on everything their owners tried to feed them just in the last month. (i can link to the threads if that's not against the rules here. they are on other forums)
sometimes companies q.c. slips.
if you can direct us to something about them i would certainly find it interesting (and i'm sure it would help the o.p. beyond measure)
FlyinBryan
Member
well what has been your experience with your spikes rifle?
accurate? any malfunctions, even a single one?
This just bugs me. Roll pin half ass drove in, the shoulder sticking out past the FSB, and let's not forget the extra slot for the taper pin milled into the barrel. I have cleaned and cleaned but it still sounds like a handful of sand is in the upper when I charge the weapon. My other 3 ARs feel like they are on ball bearings.This is a factory upper and bolt. Only changes were MOE handguards and mount for suppressor.
Oh and it took Spikes double the quoted time to mail me this "top tier" upper.
ETA: It fires fine. No hiccups, suppressed or unsuppressed. I'm having a hard time with the grating sound when I charge it. The whole dissimilar materials wearing on eachother thing. I just expected, I dunno, more. Which sucks cuz I like the look of their 10" BAR rail to go on this 10.5" upper. But they kinda left a bad taste in my mouth.
Oh and it took Spikes double the quoted time to mail me this "top tier" upper.
ETA: It fires fine. No hiccups, suppressed or unsuppressed. I'm having a hard time with the grating sound when I charge it. The whole dissimilar materials wearing on eachother thing. I just expected, I dunno, more. Which sucks cuz I like the look of their 10" BAR rail to go on this 10.5" upper. But they kinda left a bad taste in my mouth.
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ugaarguy
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Just The Facts Ma'am, Just The Facts
Not exactly:
The Sport has the same chromed carrier & HPT/MPI bolt as the rest of the M&P-15 line.
The Sport has 5R 1:8 gain twist rifling, and it will still 77gr rounds accurately. The gain twist rifling also allows it to shoot lighter construction bullets at higher velocities than a constant 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel. According to LWRC's testing their black nitride barrels have exceeded their hard chromed barrels in terms of wear resistance. (The same company that does LWRC's black nitride does S&W's black nitride, which S&W calls Melonite.) The Sport has a Melonite bbl. No, it's not chrome lined, but it's not a cheap barrel by any means either.
Overall, you could still get the Sport with a FA / Dustcover upper installed for $65+ less than the Spikes.
On the other hand, if Spikes is using the materials & doing the testing they claim, then they're a great buy for the money. The complete Spikes upper I recently handled at my LGS was very nicely assembled.
Rock River - no HPT/MPI bolt, gas key not properly staked, RE castle nut not staked. 1:9 twist standard, faster twists optional. Chrome lining optional, nitrided bore & chamber not offered.
Olympic - same as above
DPMS - same as above.
Bushmaster - chrome lining standard, otherwise same as above.
Stag - must order "plus package" to get 1:7 twist, HPT/MPI Bolt, and M4 feed ramps.
.
Not exactly:
The Sport has the same chromed carrier & HPT/MPI bolt as the rest of the M&P-15 line.
The Sport has 5R 1:8 gain twist rifling, and it will still 77gr rounds accurately. The gain twist rifling also allows it to shoot lighter construction bullets at higher velocities than a constant 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel. According to LWRC's testing their black nitride barrels have exceeded their hard chromed barrels in terms of wear resistance. (The same company that does LWRC's black nitride does S&W's black nitride, which S&W calls Melonite.) The Sport has a Melonite bbl. No, it's not chrome lined, but it's not a cheap barrel by any means either.
According to Hilton Yam's blog he was testing a Noveske prototype lower with an integrally forged trigger guard. The trigger guard on the Sport lower has the same wide, gloved finger opening that the MagPul & similar aftermarket trigger guards provide. Vltor offers their Modular Upper Receiver (MUR) in two configurations - one with, and one without forward assist. If you must have the dustcover & forward assist, then you can get an upper for $100 or so. My local shops will move everything over to the new upper if I buy it from them. Even if your local shop wont it's a job that takes less than an hour. Figure $35 for the standard one hour minimum shop time fee if you have to pay for it.
Overall, you could still get the Sport with a FA / Dustcover upper installed for $65+ less than the Spikes.
On the other hand, if Spikes is using the materials & doing the testing they claim, then they're a great buy for the money. The complete Spikes upper I recently handled at my LGS was very nicely assembled.
The Sport is better than the standard offerings from the following companies, and I've listed the reasons.
Rock River - no HPT/MPI bolt, gas key not properly staked, RE castle nut not staked. 1:9 twist standard, faster twists optional. Chrome lining optional, nitrided bore & chamber not offered.
Olympic - same as above
DPMS - same as above.
Bushmaster - chrome lining standard, otherwise same as above.
Stag - must order "plus package" to get 1:7 twist, HPT/MPI Bolt, and M4 feed ramps.
chris in va
Member
Thanks for that link Hanzo. I can't begin to say how many times I had to defend my Sport when everyone thought it was just another el-cheapo.
JPG19
Member
I've only put about 200 rounds through it, plan on shooting quite a bit more tomorrow. So far no problems what-so-ever, using pmags and 62 grain 5.56 ammo. Seems accurate, although I am only using irons and this is my first "peep sight" gun so I am by far the limiting factor here. The overall fit and finish seems outstanding, but again, I haven't had much time with this or many other AR rifles. I am definitely a "newbie" in the world of AR's; just throwing my 2 cents out there.
FlyinBryan
Member
ya that would suck for sure.
what are your other 3 ar's?
For the OP: It's free, and without need to register, to read through Spike's forums, you'll see both happy and satisfied customers as well as not-so-happy customers. Spike's has tried very hard to be transparent with their transactions.
I have every intent to make the MP15 Sport part of my collection in the near future. You can't just get one AR after all. The Spike's AR and the Sport are two different rifles, to include the metallurgy. The difference in value is here, but the "value" of owning either or both, is just as good. You can do worse than these two, but you can't do better than these two at their price points.
No disrespect to @kwelz, but in previous threads and even the consolidated thread on m4carbine.net the Spike's Tactical detractors either can't or refuse to make these allegations public. Instead, we are left to rely on whether or not we know and trust those people. That doesn't help the rest of us. That whole thing was a real shame, on both sides. Spike's delivers a great product at $800-$900 that the owner should have kept focus on and kept his opinion humble. Spike's detractors demanded to the point of being nasty about it, Spike's to produce proof of testing, that allegedly other AR companies would easily provide. Spike's provided proof (eventually, after a long wait), but the alleged easy-to-acquire proof from other companies were not produced when asked by Spike's defenders. The classic "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" scenario didn't work.
In the interest of full disclosure, as a result of the consolidated thread at M4C, and the overwhelming majority of positive reviews of Spike's $800-$850 complete AR package, I do in fact own a Spike's AR. Also, I share with many satisfied customers the sentiment that their customer service is top-notch. My experience with them was very easy going, I was not given the run-around during my wait time, and when the rifle did arrive -- using the tips learned here at THR, m4c, WEVO, AR15.com, my rifle passed the visual inspection.
I have every intent to make the MP15 Sport part of my collection in the near future. You can't just get one AR after all. The Spike's AR and the Sport are two different rifles, to include the metallurgy. The difference in value is here, but the "value" of owning either or both, is just as good. You can do worse than these two, but you can't do better than these two at their price points.
No disrespect to @kwelz, but in previous threads and even the consolidated thread on m4carbine.net the Spike's Tactical detractors either can't or refuse to make these allegations public. Instead, we are left to rely on whether or not we know and trust those people. That doesn't help the rest of us. That whole thing was a real shame, on both sides. Spike's delivers a great product at $800-$900 that the owner should have kept focus on and kept his opinion humble. Spike's detractors demanded to the point of being nasty about it, Spike's to produce proof of testing, that allegedly other AR companies would easily provide. Spike's provided proof (eventually, after a long wait), but the alleged easy-to-acquire proof from other companies were not produced when asked by Spike's defenders. The classic "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" scenario didn't work.
In the interest of full disclosure, as a result of the consolidated thread at M4C, and the overwhelming majority of positive reviews of Spike's $800-$850 complete AR package, I do in fact own a Spike's AR. Also, I share with many satisfied customers the sentiment that their customer service is top-notch. My experience with them was very easy going, I was not given the run-around during my wait time, and when the rifle did arrive -- using the tips learned here at THR, m4c, WEVO, AR15.com, my rifle passed the visual inspection.
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