Is Bow Hunting Cruel?

[Mike1234567]

My last post tonight... very tired and one too many.

I can see how a quad razor blade arrow tip might be as effective as a fast SP bullet. I just don't know. I'm probably overly sensitive about this topic.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

I guess hunters and soldiers have been cruel for thousands of years......in the future the question wll be "is hunting with rifles cruel".....time and its changes go on.

 

[coloradokevin]

I do not know how one studies such things as how animals perceive pain. But apparently studying the nervous system of an animal by biologists allows certain conclusions.

Art,

Frankly, I don't know how to scientifically measure such things either. I think it is also fair to say that any studies on that subject would need to be examined for potential bias (ie: was it conducted by PETA? A hunting group? A neutral third party with no sign of an agenda?).

I'll say that my experience on this subject is based purely on my observations alone. By way of one quick example, last year I took my dog backcountry skiing with me near the Continental Divide (we do this regularly).

On the way back to the car my pup tripped into a small hole and sprained her shoulder, or something to that effect. Let me tell you this, anyone within 100 yards of my house that night would have had NO DOUBT that my dog was experiencing excruciating pain every time she attempted to stand on that leg. The screams she let out would almost make your stomach turn, and the look in her eyes was one that revealed pain and trauma!

It is my (totally unscientific) belief that animals often experience pain in ways that are physically very similar to us, but that they hide the obvious signs of such distress for the sake of survival. In essence, I believe they may be more prone to "sucking it up" when the chips are down.

It also seems that prey animals are more likely to hide any signs of distress until they can no longer do so. I've experienced this with the numerous prey-species pets that have been kept around my home over the years... with my pets I've found that a dog, cat, or ferret will let you know when its health is declining, whereas the pet rabbit or hamster typically seems to just get sick and die within the very same afternoon.

In fact, to muddy the waters by contradicting my own view, perhaps this even means that the advanced brain of a predatory species (cat, dog, ferret) is more able to experience pain when compared with the more primitive brain of the grazing species (rabbit, ferret... deer)?

Due to my profession I've also had the unfortunate pleasure of seeing dozens of people with life threatening wounds over the years. Some of these people have lived and made a full recovery, some have died, and some have survived with crippling injuries. Nevertheless, I've seen victims in each of those categories who were screaming and crying in pain, and I've also seen victims in each of those categories who were as calm as could be. The calmness that some of the victims showed was almost eerie, to the point of making you believe that they were feeling no pain whatsoever.

I once had a guy (who wasn't drunk or high) walk up to me when I was responding to a shooting call. I thought this person was coming to me as a witness, until he revealed that he had sustained a serious gut shot from a .45 caliber. Then he asked me, calm as could be, "hey, do you think I need to get this looked at?"... Yeah, you do, sport.

So, maybe all animals don't feel pain the same way. But, it appears that humans don't, either. Regardless, killing has been a part of the natural world since the dawn of time, and animals such as our own species have long survived from the flesh of other less fortunate species. The life of a predator can be outwardly seen as a life of power and domination, but it is also a complicated life that has its own set of shortcomings.

I don't believe that killing by arrow or bullet typically takes place with no pain, but I also don't believe that we are necessarily behaving in a "cruel" manner by doing what a predator does, especially in the comparatively efficient ways that we do it! It is still my hope that my bullet will be placed accurately, and deliver death in a swift manner, with minimal suffering. I have a great deal of respect for animals, but I also have a great deal of respect for the natural order of things in this world.

 

[Mike1234567]

That is an excellent post, Kevin.

 

[Todd1700]

Because of that fact I suppose it is fair to argue that any death by hunter probably occurs faster than the death that nature would have ultimately laid upon that creature.

This is the trump card answer to the, "are hunters cruel debate". There is no "good" natural death for an animal in the wild. Eaten by another animal; death by some terrible disease or parasite; freezing to death; starvation in their old age; etc; etc; the relatively quick death by firearm or bow pales in comparison to those deaths. Mother nature deals out far crueler deaths than any human hunter. People blissfully unaware of this fact have probably learned all they know of animal life from watching Disney cartoons.

 

[Mike1234567]

Perhaps the question could have been better posed, "Is Rifle Hunting More Humane Than Bow Hunting?" This isn't a criticism... just a tweak in verbiage to better iterate the OP's query.

If pain, suffering, fear, and lost wounded animals are virtually identical then there is no difference. If one or the other increases any of these factors significantly then that method is less humane.

 

[H&Hhunter]

"Is Rifle Hunting More Humane Than Bow Hunting?"

When done ethically the answer is no. I've never had anything that I've killed with a bow go further than about 300 yards. Most are dead within seconds. The blood loss from a heart of lung shot bow wound is truly amazing which leads to a rapid mortal hypoxia.

I shot a kudu once on a water hole. I hit him just behind the shoulder and a bit high the arrow passed through and exited. The bull jumped spun looked around took two big leap stopped and went right back to having a drink he then calmly started grazing. I thought for a moment that I'd missed until I noticed that he had blood poring from his nostrils. He was to far for me to take another shot so I waited. he stayed on his feet for about one minute then got wobbly reared up and flipped over dead as a mackerel.

Another big kudu bull I arrowed through the top of the heart took two big leaps and tumbled over total time between arrow wound and death was about 10 seconds. Total time between the arrow strike and unconsciousness was less than 5 seconds.

I shot a warthog through the shoulders hitting the ascending aorta. From the wound was a stream of blood about the size of your thumb shooting out either side for at least 5 to 10 feet. The hog made it less than 20 yards before tumbling over dead.

The furthest anything I've ever shot with a bow went was a zebra stallion. I hit him above the heart. The blood trail was incredible with blood sprayed 6 to 7 feet up into the trees he'd run through. He ran about 300 yards before tumbling over dead. Of course zebra tend to react about the same to a bullet wound.

Now what I've described is graphic no doubt about it. But when compared to a bullet wound it is no more or less cruel simply stated a properly placed arrow kills as fast as a properly placed bullet.

So the definitive answer to question is no bow hunting when done correctly is not inhumane and neither is rifle hunting when done correctly. That might not be what you want to hear but it is the simple truth.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Adding to what Colorada Kevin said, my hunting partner shot a bull elk through both lungs with a broadhead. The elk jumped a little, dropped his head and started browsing again for a few seconds, raised his head back up and fell over dead. Who knows.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I do not bowhunt. For me, a bow would involve greater likelihood of losing a wounded animal. That is a skill problem.

I wonder about the relative merits of a killing mechanism that is designed to take many minutes, versus one that is designed to take seconds or less. But we all know that things can and do go wrong with any method of hunting.

I am not able to speculate on whether we can understand what "pain" or "fright" (or "terror") may mean to an animal; and I am surprised that so many feel they can speculate, whether aided by scientific apparatus or their own good sense.

In short, I have misgivings. However, they are, I feel, insignificant compared to bow hunting's enormous, honorable tradition. I fully support its continuation, even though I will probably never do it for several reasons.

 

[MCgunner]

Quote:
Is it cruel?
Certainly less cruel than being gutted live by tooth and claw from whatever predator there would be if man were not in the picture.

It's not going to die of old age in the deer/hog/bear/fish retirement home after all, is it?

I asked a legitimate question based on my experience. It did not warrant a sophomoric response.

I don't find this answer "sophomoric". I rather agree with it. I'm a carnivorous Homo sapien. Men did not have firearms until very recently. While I enjoy hunting with firearms, from handgun to black powder to rifle, and have yet to shoot a deer with a bow, i do consider it a more natural way to hunt. I guess it's just in my mind, but man has been an archer for millennia, it's part of many, many cultures. I respect bow hunting and the fewer sights and wheels the bow has, the more I respect the men and women who do it. If I ever hunt with MY bow, I'll do it with my compound, though. Ain't going to dedicate myself to the practice it takes to shoot instinctively without sights. I do pretty well WITH sights.

My cousin's boy is an archeologist for the state, teachs kids out near Comstock in his duties, Seminole Canyon state park. He has killed game with an atlatl. Now THERE is your back to the basics hunting! Cruel? I guess that's your call, but I'd rather call it cool. You have to get even closer to game to score with a spear chuncker than with a bow. I feel this sort of hunting gives the deer a break, less cruel than shooting 'em at 800 yards with some sort of accurized rifle. I mean, I don't dis those that shoot at long range either, not anymore, I realize that's their thing and they're good at it for the most part. I just think having to get inside 40 yards is more challenge and lets more deer get a pardon from being shot that rifles to. Even if it kills slower, it gives the deer more chance of not getting shot.

 

[gofastman]

here is my two pennies.
The medical community doesn't understand pain very well in humans, in fact there was just recently a huge study launched about pain by someone, cant remember who (NIH, AMA, W.H.O. or something)

If we don't fully understand how pain effects us, we sure as hell cant fully understand how it effects animals.

Anyway, the bottom line is there is no definitive answer to this thread, maybe 20 years from now we will know.

until then, do what you think is right.

IMO, a well placed arrow is not a cruel way to kill an animal.

 

[MCgunner]

This weekend, i crippled a lot of dove. I'd pick 'em up as they were kickiing and rip their little heads off. Is that "cruel". If so, what's the best way to hunt doves? I'm going to keep doing it my way, mind you, but I think it's all perception. Many people will anthropomorphize deer, not so a bird. Is that intellectual thought?

Think with your HEAD logically, not emotion. Bambi was a cartoon.

 

[DammitBoy]

Only men die in bed.

and that's only the careless ones that get caught by the husband...

 

[Mike1234567]

H&H, actually, that's precisely what I wanted to hear. I'm the pragmatic type and try to remain open-minded. I'm on my way to being convinced... almost.

 

[MCgunner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribou
Only men die in bed.

and that's only the careless ones that get caught by the husband...

Now that's funny right there.

 

[BikerRN]

Do bows allow for humane kills on deer sized game and larger?

Some would argue that any and all killing of living creatures is cruel.

That would not be my position on the matter however, as man is a predatory animal by nature, and the apex of the food chain for all practical purposes. Death by mountain lion is in no way without cruelty, nor is it humane, to Bambi. Life is geared towards one thing, seen in nature and in war amongst participants. That one thing is SURVIVAL!

While I don't needlessly inflict pain, or pull wings off flies for grins and giggles, I accept that some animal will die to put food on my table and feed myself and my family. No firearm is going to guarantee a one shot stop on any game animal and the chances that you will be involved in following a blood trail and finding a wounded or recently deceased animal is high. Therefore I contend that bowhunting is no more cruel than life itself, and is often less cruel, thereby making it humane.

By the way, I don't hunt with a bow and arrow, but I have no problem with those who do.

BikerRN

 

[jbkebert]

I have had similar experiences to H&H hunter. I had a buck come by my stand trailing a hot doe. His nose to the ground grunting like a hog. Send the arrow through him. He kept on trailing the doe never missing a beat. Thought I missed and watched him fall 45 yards down the trail. No reaction what-so-ever to the hit.

My son bagged a buck last year with a .243 win. The deer bucked at the shot. Then started grazing again with his tail wagging back and forth like a labrador. He ate for a few seconds and started prancing for the does in the feild. He piled up after 10 seconds tops. The does were all on alert from the shot but didn't no which way to run. Buck thought he had a captive audience.

The chest cavity of both deer was full of blood with a ton of damage. They just didn't realize they were dead yet.

 

[Mike1234567]

jbk... what did you expect? That buck had his mind on other things.

 

[jbkebert]

That thought seems to put males of all species in early graves.

 

[Art Eatman]

Since this is not the first time this subject has been discussed, how about let's knock for now and those who wish can think about it. If apropos, bring any new thoughts to another thread. This one is getting repetitive...