Is cap and ball a muzzleloader?

[351 WINCHESTER]

For hunting with a m/l in Fl is a cap and ball revolver legal? Nowhere in the regs. is a cap and ball prohibited nor mentioned.

 

[BigG]

Yes it is a muzzleloader.

 

[rodwha]

Technically it is not a muzzleloader as it doesn't load from the muzzle. But many states include them as muzzleloaders.

I called my local game warden and spoke to him about using mine. I cannot during the primitive season, but I can take it as a backup to my muzzleloader rifle.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Look at the Federal definition of firearm. It doesn't take a cartridge.

While it is a repeater, it is also a front stuffer when you consider you have to pour the powder in and then the ball from the front of the chamber.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

State hunting laws have nothing to do with federal rules.

A cap and ball revolver does not load from the muzzle but the front of the chamber. Except for a very few pepper boxes on which the front of the chamber is also actually the muzzle.

Some states include them as muzzle loaders, even though they do not load from the muzzle. In PA they are considered center fire.

There are guns that load from the muzzle, guns that load from the breech and some that load in between. Except for pepperboxes, Cap and Ball revolvers are "tweeners. To Some folks any loose powder gun is a "muzzle loader", even the breech loading percussion Sharps rifles.

The Burnside Carbine loaded from the front of the chamber, but not from the muzzle.

Whether cap and ball revolvers are muzzle loaders" in Florida is a florida law question for that state's wild life folks to answer.

 

[Jim K]

Note, though, that hunting laws (the subject here) may differ from laws on purchasing a handgun or carrying a handgun. For purchase, most states define muzzle loaders or percussion revolvers as antiques (regardless of when made) and exempt them from restrictions on metallic cartridge handguns. But in most states that restrict open or concealed carry of a firearm, a percussion revolver is no different from a Glock, and in laws regarding assault with a deadly weapon or armed robbery, the age of type of firearms makes no difference at all.

Jim

 

[grter]

Another good question is are these the of type things that are found out after a conviction (or fine or whatever) on a case to case basis?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Fed no. Check your state laws as some say it's a gonne.

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

is cap & ball Muzzleloader

My answer would be since Florida apparently in their hunting regulation
don't define ANY legal firearm for the taking of any game you would typically shoot with a firearm, Contact them direct and ask them.

but Florida's law states this:
FAC 68A 1.004

(45) Muzzleloading gun – A firearm that cannot be loaded from the breech and is fired by wheel lock, flintlock, percussion cap, or centerfire primer.

but based on this, then yes you can.
But based on what you intend to hunt the question would then be
would it be wise, prudent and appropriate.
And is it legal for that game species.

Also some muzzleloaders are not included as legal, such as the CVA Electra.

 

[swathdiver]

I'm a Florida Cracker and yes you can but it must be .40 caliber or larger. Check the hunting regs, not state statutes at MyFWC for the latest. I'll look into it further tonight.

 

[Patocazador]

For hunting with a m/l in Fl is a cap and ball revolver legal? Nowhere in the regs. is a cap and ball prohibited nor mentioned.

Definitely yes!

I asked 4 game wardens here that question 2 years ago. I got 2 emphatic NO's, 1 YES, and 1 "I don't know".

I wrote to the FWC and got an e-mail back stating that it was legal to hunt with a C&B revolver during muzzleloader season, IF it shot a ball of .40 or greater.

I printed that response and carry it with me. You should do the same because the LEOs don't know the law.

 

[Texas Moon]

Many states do NOT consider them muzzleloaders for primitive hunting season.

Ask your local fish&game people.

 

[Crawdad1]

In PA they are considered center fire.

That's what I always thought that they are not considered muzzleloaders and must be used during the 'Modern' seasons and follow all of the modern caliber minimum requirements.

Well, from this thread it seems that there's more than one state that doesn't adequately define the percussion revolver in their hunting regulations. I always assumed that if it is not specifically stated than assume it is a modern weapon for hunting purposes and follow those requirements and only hunt them in those seasons. Not erring on the side of caution but erring on the side of reason.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

It's worse than that in some states... in Maryland for a muzzleloading handgun to be used for deer hunting, it must have at least 40 grains of powder to launch the ball...so that limits you to a Walker or a Colt 1st Model Dragoon ...unless there are other revolvers that will take 40 grains plus a bullet into the chamber.

LD

 

[rodwha]

My ROA takes 40 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford or 45 grns of Triple 7 with a ball. But I also have my bullets designed so as not to take up powder space. My 170 grn WFN is only .400" long, and my 195 grn WFN is only .460" long.

I haven't tried to load my Pietta Remington full tilt, but I do know the capacity is a little smaller, but maybe it would take 40 grns of T7.

 

[swathdiver]

For Florida:

Hunting deer with a muzzleloader:

Muzzleloading guns firing single bullets must be at least .40-caliber. Muzzleloading guns firing two or more balls must be 20-gauge or larger.

If the WMA allows it, usually they don't, one could hunt small game with a .36 sixgun or .32 rifle even.

Unless otherwise specified, for taking wild hogs, it's run what ya brung.

 

[WestKentucky]

Technically it's a mid-loader. Not from the muzzle nor from a breech. For most purposes it falls in with muzzleloaders.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Many thanks for all the responses. Looks like I'm good to go.

 

[mustanger]

Just making an observation here. I know this was not the question, but one should consider that if a cap and ball revolver were to be legal in ones state, you would need to get really darn close, due to it's low killing power on an animal the size of a deer. I know that I didn't say that quite right,so I hope you know what I mean.

 

[dickydalton]

Just making an observation here. I know this was not the question, but one should consider that if a cap and ball revolver were to be legal in ones state, you would need to get really darn close, due to it's low killing power on an animal the size of a deer. I know that I didn't say that quite right,so I hope you know what I mean.

I'm thinking that a whole lot of "sportsmen" don't want to hear what you said.
I Love my cap n ball revolvers and won't take them deer hunting.

 

[dickydalton]

And Yes. I have three ROAs and Kaido bullets. I've shot three deer with 44 magnum revolvers and you should leave your 1858 Remington at home. MHO.

 

[swathdiver]

Just making an observation here.
...one should consider that if a cap and ball revolver were to be legal in ones state, you would need to get really darn close, due to it's low killing power on an animal the size of a deer.

How are you loading your sixgun to make it so anemic? With the right combination of sixgun, powder and bullet they can and have taken all North American big game.

 

[rodwha]

"...due to it's low killing power on an animal the size of a deer."

Depending on the powder used. If you use a weaker powder you get "lower killing power." But if you use Swiss, Olde Eynsford, or Triple 7 you can best the numbers of a modern .45 Colt load. And I'm not talking about cowboy action loads or Ruger only loads, but modern .45 Colt smokeless loads. I don't know of anyone who claims that isn't plenty for a deer sized animal. And note that Mr. Beliveau reduced his load 16% which isn't necessary for safety, but to give similar results as those weaker BP's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WNYGs2_UZw

In the many side by side comparisons Swiss, Olde E, and T7 give very similar velocities when compared by volume.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

How are you loading your sixgun to make it so anemic? With the right combination of sixgun, powder and bullet they can and have taken all North American big game.

I think one would be pretty brave or perhaps crazy to intentionally go hunting after an adult grizzly bear with a reproduction cap-n-ball revolver, even if it was a Walker Colt loaded to maximum. I wouldn't try it with a .54 rifle, even though the Corps of Discovery documented taking grizzly with them.



LD

 

[swathdiver]

Me too! But it's been done and documented and plenty more with Colt Peacemakers using the old black powder cartridges too.

I'd have no worry shooting a grizzly with my .54 and having my Remington sixgun with me as a backup or coup de grace weapon.