Is Colt Dead?
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Vern Humphrey
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For Colt to be really alive, they'll have to do what Winchester did -- get out of their old, union-ridden contracts and move to a modern facility.
I've never seen a firearms manufacturer that folks like to kick around and wish ill upon as much as Colt. For the life of me I don't understand why. Colt has certainly produced some lemons, and went stale on much of their R&D over the last two decades. They made several poor business decisions and paid a price for that in the form of a painful and embarrassing bankruptcy. Then again I can think of some lemons and horrible business decisions from S&W, Kimber, Sig, etc.
While the other 1911 manufacturers around Colt's price point have lowered their quality, Colt has moved towards improving quality, and use only 3 MIM parts in their guns. If the buyer deems necessary, the offending MIM parts can be replaced for less than a hundred bucks. Colt has installed new CNC machines in their plant, and made a substantial investment in their civilian firearm production capability. However all we hear is that Colt is only interested in military contracts and doesn't care about consumers. All I know is, there has never been a point where I could not find a new Colt handgun on the shelf, or at least order one if I wanted to.
I too would like to see Colt be more innovative, and produce a handgun that is competitive in today's market for military and police contracts. In the meantime, I'm content buying their current offerings. You can't go too wrong as a company when you produce a version of the best designed fighting pistol in history.
For what it is worth, from what I have read Colt is currently profitable and sells every handgun they can make. They don't sound dead to me.
While the other 1911 manufacturers around Colt's price point have lowered their quality, Colt has moved towards improving quality, and use only 3 MIM parts in their guns. If the buyer deems necessary, the offending MIM parts can be replaced for less than a hundred bucks. Colt has installed new CNC machines in their plant, and made a substantial investment in their civilian firearm production capability. However all we hear is that Colt is only interested in military contracts and doesn't care about consumers. All I know is, there has never been a point where I could not find a new Colt handgun on the shelf, or at least order one if I wanted to.
I too would like to see Colt be more innovative, and produce a handgun that is competitive in today's market for military and police contracts. In the meantime, I'm content buying their current offerings. You can't go too wrong as a company when you produce a version of the best designed fighting pistol in history.
For what it is worth, from what I have read Colt is currently profitable and sells every handgun they can make. They don't sound dead to me.Vern Humphrey
Member
As long as it's a Model 1911 variant.
Where's the Cobras, Anacondas, Detective Specials, Diamondbacks, and so on?
rbernie
Contributing Member
I think very highly of my Colt 1911s. But there is no doubt that they've been riding the same few models for a very long time. Perhaps the AllAmerican2000 and DoubleEagle soured them on new design efforts.
In general I don't see it as unreasonable for Colt to have abandoned their hand-fitted models, but this is an excellent point - why discontinue the TrooperMKIII and other models that require little/no hand fitting?
Vern Humphrey
Member
The Anaconda and Diamondback were not handfitted, as I recall. In fact, the Anaconda was the last revolver Colt brought out.
chuckusaret
member
Why would Colt want to jeopardize their military business? The military contracts provide steady income and are not based on the whims of a small number of civilian gun buyers. Millions of guns vs. thousands. I have a 1991 series Colt Combat Commander and enjoy it more than I would any that are produced by other companies. Colt still has a very large following of gun buyers. I buy Colt because they are Colt and IMO has the best overall reputation of all the gun manufacturers.
Vern Humphrey
Member
"a small number of civilian gun buyers?"
There was a recent story that claimed since the election, American have bought enough guns to completely arm both the Chinese and Indian armies (the two largest armies in the world, by a long chalk.)
And how would selling guns to civilians jeopardize their military contracts? FN manages to sell guns to both civilians and the Army with no problems.
There was a recent story that claimed since the election, American have bought enough guns to completely arm both the Chinese and Indian armies (the two largest armies in the world, by a long chalk.)
And how would selling guns to civilians jeopardize their military contracts? FN manages to sell guns to both civilians and the Army with no problems.
Colt doesn't have the skilled people to hand fit and finish their products like they used to. New guns probably wouldn't have the "feel' of a 50 year old Colt. No machine can build a gun like a dedicated craftsman can. I f you don't beleive me, just compare a standard, off-the-shelf S&W revolver from 40 years ago with what comes out of their custom shop today. It's a good thing "They don' build 'em like they used to." If they did, we couldn't afford "em.
I would like to see Colt develpoe new designs. It's important to our national defence to have a healthy gun industry.
I would like to see Colt develpoe new designs. It's important to our national defence to have a healthy gun industry.
damien
Member
I have to assume they still have the rights to the Mustang/Pony. People still talk about those and they fetch good money used. Colt should bring those back. The market can still support a reliable all-steel compact pistol.
Also, isn't Colt still making the Anaconda after a long hiatus? There were some new ones floating around a couple of years ago.
I have an 8" Anaconda I bought in 1994 for about $479. Best looking .44 in my opinion.
Mike OTDP
Member
if I were running Colt, I'd put money into a good set of CNC milling machines. VERY good milling machines.
Then design a New Python that didn't need hand fitting (or needed a minimal amount). Hand fitting was partly a compensation for machining tolerances...tighten the tolerances, and you can get away with less fitting. At a minimum, be able to measure parts so the hand-fitters could pick parts that will work together properly.
After that, I'd be tempted to cut against the grain...to exploit the Civil War Sesquicentennial with a new production 1851 Navy and 1860 Army revolver. No, not an Italian repro made to a price point, an AMERICAN gun made to the original quality specifications. If you've ever handled an original Colt percussion gun in good shape, you know what I'm talking about. The originals were built as if a man's life would depend on them, while the repros are made for plinking. BIG difference.
Beyond that? I'd look at a service pistol with an electronic trigger. And maybe a squeeze-cocker...an HK P7 with the bugs worked out, and in .45ACP.
Then design a New Python that didn't need hand fitting (or needed a minimal amount). Hand fitting was partly a compensation for machining tolerances...tighten the tolerances, and you can get away with less fitting. At a minimum, be able to measure parts so the hand-fitters could pick parts that will work together properly.
After that, I'd be tempted to cut against the grain...to exploit the Civil War Sesquicentennial with a new production 1851 Navy and 1860 Army revolver. No, not an Italian repro made to a price point, an AMERICAN gun made to the original quality specifications. If you've ever handled an original Colt percussion gun in good shape, you know what I'm talking about. The originals were built as if a man's life would depend on them, while the repros are made for plinking. BIG difference.
Beyond that? I'd look at a service pistol with an electronic trigger. And maybe a squeeze-cocker...an HK P7 with the bugs worked out, and in .45ACP.
yongxingfreesty
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in the ar15 platform, colt isnt dead.
I doubt Colt can do it.
USFA, on the other hand... More Colt than Colt, anyway.
Exactly. CNC can make parts that fit together quite well.
And what's wrong with S&W's "Performance Center" model? Not every gun has to be a Python to be considered a good revolver. Surely, not all old Colts were, either.
What have they done lately? I don't mean churning out rifles and parts, I mean what's new from Colt? All the innovation in said platform seems to be coming from elsewhere.
ConstitutionCowboy
member
Who better to come out with a new production of 1908s?
Woody
Woody
DougDubya
Member
You are my hero. Where's the slush fun to start this project?
(For shame not wanting to do a Dragoon or Walker reissue.)
damien
Member
They would probably have to rework the safety features to get them to modern standards. I wonder what they could sell them for.
I agree. Got both. Actually, my newer alloy J-frame feels a good deal slicker than the old ones, but the other guns, not so much.
I should have been clearer: I meant the Performance Center business model. Produce a good gun using whatever technology you can, then offer expensive versions that take more hand 'smithing.
There's no reason Colt couldn't do that, if they had CNC machines making GOOD revolvers. They could also still offer REALLY AMAZING revolvers to those willing to pay for them (well, if Colt got some gunsmiths like they used to have).
That's what I meant by the "Performance Center model."
I just meant the idea of multiple tiers to serve multiple market niches.ThrottleJockey72
member
I think Samuel Colt died quite a long time ago.
ArmedBear, I agree about the Multi-tiered approch to marketing. Most of us drive Chevy's and Fords. A few of us drive Lincolns and Cadillacs. If Colt would take that approch, they would sell a lot more guns. They would sell a few new Pythons and a lot more Troopers. It would give them the cash to do R&D.
LRaccuracy
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Remington, DPMS and Bushmaster are now owned by Cerberus. You know the company that bought Chrysler a few years back. Cerberus may be looking at giving Colt a run for their money in the Government contract arena. Cerberus has the capital and the civilian market is a good one, however with their clout, they could handle a Government contract too.
Hammerhead6814
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I do not understand Colt these days. For over one-hundred years they were the innovators and mold-breakers in the firearms industry. Whether it was the .45 Long Colt, or the M1911A1 (M1911 was John Browning's design), or the BAR, they were the company that made new and interesting designs that would pave the way.
Today they aren't coming up with anything. Polymer pistols are Glock's territory, piston AR's are viewed abroad as an H&K idea (although everyone has been doing it), bullpup's are in use/being developed by Britain, France, Germany, Iran, China, Singapore, India, Australia, Austria, etc etc. What's Colt doing? Jack-****.
It's like something just took the life out of them.
Today they aren't coming up with anything. Polymer pistols are Glock's territory, piston AR's are viewed abroad as an H&K idea (although everyone has been doing it), bullpup's are in use/being developed by Britain, France, Germany, Iran, China, Singapore, India, Australia, Austria, etc etc. What's Colt doing? Jack-****.
It's like something just took the life out of them.
Pietro Beretta
Member
I just sent in my Colt XSE for warranty repair. I asked about the turn-around time for the repair. I quote per cary at COLT MFG: "The factory is shut down until next monday, I expect about a 30 day turn around time"
Cost cutting measure, or perhaps something else!?
Cost cutting measure, or perhaps something else!?
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