Is Everything a Conspiracy ?

[sm]

I try to keep an open mind. As a kid in publik skool on of our assignments was to read the Editorial Page, and Listen to AM Radio Current Events. Teacher said to NOT take everything at face value - instead seek out resources to verify , clarify and document.

This was just after JFK has been shot. I had shook the man's hand 2 years before. Played hell getting information on the Shooting. Next dealie was 'Nam. I remember reading "we were not there" and then visiting with fella I grew up with who was back in the States recovering from a wound he rec'd from "there".

Granted some things for "Nat'l Security" made/make sense...especially since with modern technology we can do real time. NOT a good thing for talking head to say where and when they are headed in the Sand Box.

Then one reads Orwell's 1984or Animal Farm when younger...as the years go by and "gummit and societal" changes occur.

I think and feel the "conspiracy" is feared more by the gummit and politicians. Simply because unlike say Tass being the only news some folks rec'd and controlled by the USSR - We have with The Internet and the prevalence of so many computers in the home here in the States...elswhere, we can access information.

Seem to be a LOT of folks in IT and related fields that don't like control and the Gov't knows this.

How you gonna keep down on the farm, once they've been to the city.

 

[444]

"I think conspiracies would be kind of hard to keep under wraps. "

The beauty of it is that you don't have to keep it under wraps. You give your version of events. When the truth comes out, anyone that tells it is considered a nut. They even have two words ALWAYS used: wacko, and conspiracy nut. In fact, the idea that anything is not as it appears is so engrained in the American psyche that even though we KNOW about dozens of times it has happened in the past, we refuse to believe it could ever happen again.
Don't believe me ? Read some of the posts to this thread. Just suggesting it is considered ridiculous. Why would you worry about keeping it under wraps ?

 

[Cal4D4]

I just wrote out a long post and the website was not responding when I submitted. I am sure it was the mole people blocking the truth. I think alot of the incomplete truths put forth are more in the vein of "If you are gonna eat sausage you don't really want to know how it's made" rather than conspiracy. In your field, sometimes you use drug induced amnesia...is that a conspiracy to prevent the patient from knowing the truth or a desire to protect him from certain realities?

 

[jimpeel]

Here's my own personal conspiracy theory authored by myself. That doesn't mean I believe it as fact; only that I believe it as plausible.

Saddam sent the WNDs to Libya wherein Khaddafy(sp?) then turned them over to the U.S. to remove them from under their own noses. Khaddafy says "I am soooo afeared" and turns them in. In the meantime, we find nothing in Iraq to our great embarassment. We knew nothing about any WMDs in Libya even though we monitor their every movement and what comes into and out of there? They got all of this stuff through the import/export embargo with the CIA, MI5, Interpol, et al totally blind to it all?

Now here is my favorite conspiracy theory of all time.

When the government disposes of the patriots they will project a holographic image of Jesus Christ returning to Earth. When people question what happened to so many people, the government will say "They were taken up."

 

[carpettbaggerr]

We're through the looking glass, people.

How do you know your daddy's not a zombie less'n your momma tells you so?

 

[jimpeel]

Cuz I read it in the National Inquirer.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Tam Said:

I really don't believe that they sit behind closed doors, rubbing their hands together and cackling about how they can get us all into the gas chambers after they've taken away our thutty-thutties.

Then Art Said:

For instance, how do they listen to BATF testimony about how rarely certain guns are used in crime, yet continue to rave and rant against them? Etc, etc...

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's cause they're politicians trying to get re-elected. Whether or not they believe the nonsense they spew is immaterial; saying it (apparently) keeps getting them reelected, so they keep saying it. I'd imagine they assume that banning "evil looking" guns doesn't really hurt anyone, so it's not really wrong, or something like that.

Hardly the epitome of evil. They're just greedy politicians playing the emotional scare-tactic angle to get votes.

 

[RealGun]

I would say that "people" will need to learn not to overreact to information. The more they can handle, the more they will get. - RealGun

Speaking of overreacting to information, now the whole MP brigade in charge of prisoner detention is condemned by canceling all medal awards, including those deserved. Can you say "scapegoat"? Somehow the messenger must be shot.

Army Drops Brigade from Medal List

 

[444]

Right, I totally agree Nightcrawler. This doesn't have to be dramatic. Where I made my mistake was my use of the word conspiracy instead of the word deception. IMO, pretty much everything told to us by the government by the "news" media is a deception. They are saying one thing, but the reality of the situation is something totallly different. The reason for the deception might be anything. It might be evil or it might not be evil.
The point is that as we sit and debate the topics of the day, I always have the feeling that all we are debating is a fictional story.

 

[ravinraven]

Oak or pine?

"At the risk of crucifixion, I'm going to come out and say that even Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy, and their ilk believe that it's about combatting crime and stopping senseless acts of violence."

I'm busy in my little shop with my "Handy-Dandy crucifixtion kit." Is oak or pine the preferred material for the job.

rr

 

[Art Eatman]

sm, in the days following JFK's assassination, the world was inundated with coverage of the event and the sequels. Facts, photos, and speculations abounded. TV was all over the place--over and over and over. It seemed like the whole bleeping world was a giant funeral dirge.

444, it's less that "the facts come out" than it is that the facts are often right out in the open, but different political viewpoints lead to different conclusions. Same deal as the difference between your attitude about an "Assault weapon" and the attitude of an MMMer. The facts are right out there, but the conclusions are opposites.

Art

 

[sm]

Art,
I hear what you are saying, I understand - really.

Seems as a lot of variables exists in this "conspiracy". Perhaps we need to define "conspiracy".

Variables like the various behaviors, history, or education of a people, shape the way they receive information and process it.

Re: JFK , Now how many folks really bought the "magic bullet" theory? So when a Vincent Foster, Jimmi Hoffa, or somesuch newsworthy item is reported...sniff sniff...you smell it...I smell it.

Now we might not identify the exact critter that left the droppings/chips...but we ain't gonna step in it, we do agree what it is in principle, and we walk around it - fertilizer.

 

[Bruce H]

Conspiracys like other forms of self gratification are far easier to deal with than reality. That is why there are so many of them.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

The government is SO large and SO many incompetent people handle the information. On top of that, every one of those incompetents have an axe to grind. The media is a willing participant in reporting anything sensational.

We are in the information age where there is really nowhere to hide anything. During WWII and even the Kennedy assassination, not only was it easy to "hide" certain information, but the media was more "receptive" to overlooking certain pieces of the puzzle. Conversely, the media also manipulates events to suit their agenda (i.e. Uncle Walter single handedly turning public opinion against the Vietnam action).

The key to the large conspiracies would involve government-media collusion. I really do not see that happenning these days with CNN vs Fox and Drudge throwing anything at the wall to see if it sticks.

So we have incompetents in government, shrill media with their leftist agenda (or rightist agenda), independants, talk radio, the internet. It seems unlikely that any conspiracy would not see a little sunshine. As we have also witnessed, we have morons with digital cameras in unfortunate places.

All of this, of course, is to our detriment. Some things should be secret. Some things we should not know. Who decides?

 

[R.H. Lee]

There are no doubt millions of little "conspiracies" more aptly described as "coverups" that take place in all levels of our society. Is there one grand unifying conspiracy? No. Of course not. Governments are not that smart. What government is, is too big, too powerful and has too much of our money.

 

[RealGun]

I think what we experience is an evolving abuse of discretion, not the product of some grand root strategy. Some get caught at it and some don't. Some of it, like gun control, is institutionalized and considered normal and justified, never mind tendentious and popular interpretations of the Constitution.

So conspiracy is not the right word, but being suspicious or skeptical is still justified. All that's required is accountability. It's ultimately up to the Supreme Court to create the belief that there is any justice in this country.

Respect for that Court and the underlying path for petitioning the government against grievances is an essential element for this nation continuing. Those particularly focused upon the 2nd Amendment could and should have some rather harsh attitudes, since their grievances have not been heard with any fairness or frequency. As a nation, lack of respect for the Constitution as well as inherent rights will be our undoing, I think. The intent of the 2nd Amendment may ultimately be tested, unless something fundamental changes.

 

[corncob]

It really doesn't matter whether history and the future are being manipulated by some vast conspiracy or not. Maybe the second law of thermodynamics is a conspiracy. Who cares--its true. Conspiracy theory is just about the "who, why, and how" for the "what" we see happening around us. Sure we are slowly losing our liberty. Practically speaking, whether it is a natural tendency or a carefully-orchestrated plot doesn't matter.

 

[dustind]

At the risk of crucifixion, I'm going to come out and say that even Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy, and their ilk believe that it's about combatting crime and stopping senseless acts of violence. I really don't believe that they sit behind closed doors, rubbing their hands together and cackling about how they can get us all into the gas chambers after they've taken away our thutty-thutties.

I think it is none of the above. They(the politicians listed above) are lying to intentionally deceive people, but it is just because they do not want other people armed, and it helps their careers to look busy. I do not believe they have any evil plans for an unarmed society, assuming you do not count protecting us from ourselves and "free" national healthcare as evil plans.

Almost everyone wants control of other people, most may not want everyone to be their slaves, but they want control of them in some way. Wether it is to stop something that scares them, annoys them, threatens them, or they find immoral, they want control.

Parents may want to hold on to their kids money so they can control how they spend it. Some police officers do not like people having some types of freedom or privacy because it makes their job more difficult.

Politicians are able to let their emotions run rampant. They do not fear an over reaching government because they are apart of it, and most of what they do does not effect them personally.

Most people are very good at telling you what should be done to other people, or hobbies without giving it much thought at all, despite the fact that they know nothing about them.

 

[Minute_Of_Torso]

Quoting Tamara:

"I would be a lot happier if there was some big conspiracy in control of things.

That way, everything that happened would be part of a Master Plan and not simply a never ending string of cock-ups, random chance, mistakes, bad forecasts, lousy advice, random impulsiveness, and simple emotions, like it is in the real world."

I think that if everything were simply a never-ending string of cock-ups, random chance, etc., etc., then we could expect that at least once in a while things would turn out right or for our benefit. . . that never seems to be the case. At least with random chance you should get somewhere around a fifty-fifty shot at something beneficial happening.

Besides, the problem with this thread is that conspiracies are "secret and under the cover of darkness" . . . our government is very open about the agenda AND NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE!

I'm not paranoid . . . everyone is out to get me.

 

[ravinraven]

Just becauise you are paranoid...

...doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

"I do not believe they have any evil plans for an unarmed society,"

The "they" referred to here have been heard saying such things as "It is the needs of society, not the individual, that is important." that's code talk for "BRING ON TYRANNY!!"

The first step in bringing on a totalitarion state is to disarm the people. An unarmed citizen is known as a subject.

Evil plans?? "They" don't think their plans are evil.

I've heard that 70 to 75 percent of the world population is anti-liberty. We are approaching 50% in the USA. When we get to where totalitarianists such at Hitlary and old Chap-Of-Quick-Dick Teddy think they can get 51% support for their anti-liberty dream state, a constitutional convention will be called and we will vote the whole bill of rights into the trash can.

And the people will cheer their own demise.

You can see this happening all around you.

rr

 

[dischord]

Here's another vote that the cause is that toxic mixture of bureaucratic snafu plus say/do-anything-to-stay-in-office gamesmanship rather than nefarious or maniacal intent.
fnord

 

[JohnBT]

Let's see, most folks seem to believe that the government can do nothing right.

The same people believe that the government can keep numerous large secrets for long periods of time.

"Is Everything a Conspiracy ?"

Everything? Only to the paranoid.

John

 

[WingZero]

Is Everything a Conspiracy ?

No, just a mistake.

 

[Michigander]

The crazy thing is, that even though there has to be some conspiracies out there, "they" like to make the "conspiracy theorists" (or "conspiracy nuts" if you prefer) think that "they" are responsible for far more than they actually are or ever could be. Keeps up the misinformation, confusion and the "awe" intimidation factor (as in, 'wow, "they" are really powerful, dude!').

I have never and will never buy the argument that "they" just cannot keep secrets that big for so long, etc., etc., etc. What kind of logic is that? Besides, whenever any secrets have been leaked over the years, someone is always there to "make it go away."

 

[JohnBT]

So you admit big secrets have been leaked? Are you trying to prove my point?

It's not logic that leads me to believe that the government can't keep a secret for very long...it's personal experience. I work for the government.

JBT (The T stands for tinfoil)