Is it crazy to load .45 ACP in a single stage press?

[dbarnhart]

I loaded .45acp in a Rockchucker for about 30 years. I would typically decap and size 500 or so, then prime all 500. Then every week I'd stuff the 100 I was going to shoot that week. I really didn't feel the need to move to a progressive press until I was reloading every week for three calibers.

Now I'm using a Hornady LnL and typically reload 1000 rounds of each caliber at a time. And right now I am in the middle of casting about 6000 rounds of lead .45acp bullets, which is about a year's supply. I live in Phoenix, Az and soon it's going to be too hot for casting.

 

[James2]

Unfortunately our reloading setup is 90 minutes away at my buddy's ranch. Otherwise this wouldnt be as big a deal. I just hate spending my outdoors time inside reloading when all I want to do is shoot!

Now I see the problem. You need the reloader at your home so you can work at it a bit at a time when time permits. If you have to drive 90 miles to use the reloader, you may as well buy factory ammo for the 45. You can buy a single stage setup for about the cost of 2 tanks of petro these days.

The real question is how much ammo a week do you shoot? If it is around 200 rounds, that can easily be done on a single stage. I enjoy the reloading and the shooting, so don't mind putting in the time, but I would not drive 90 miles to reload!

I see where you are coming from, when you go to the ranch, you want to be out shooting.

 

[918v]

A steel plate at 10 yards

People went from shooting paper for groups at 50 yards with finely crafted revolvers to shooting steel plates at 10 yards with crap made from plastic, MIM, and zinc. This is called progress.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

I guess my question is, how much easier are progressive presses?

Progressives are more difficult to use than single-stage presses because you are dealing with 5 or more stations at once rather than one. They are also more expensive to buy, but load many more rounds at one time than a single-stage.

If you are an experienced reloader and want to crank out more rounds in less time and have the money, get a progressive. I use a Dillon 500B, but the Hornady and Ponsness-Warrens (both semi-progressives) are supposed to be good. I don;t know anything about any progressives made by RCBS and won't recommend one made by Lee.

 

[GLOOB]

The question you need to ask, is how many rounds of ONE caliber do you need to do at a time. Some progressives are much easier than others, but you need to futz with ALL of them a bit to do a changeover.

At a minimum, you need to change the case feeder, shell plate, tool head, powder measure. And you may need to change the primer feed, too.

If you use dippers, a caliber change on a SS takes around 30 seconds. For small batches of multiple calibers, you might do it faster and easier with a SS. This is why a lot of people use a progressive for just 1 of their high volume calibers, and use a SS press for all their other stuff.

Once you dedicate to a progressive press for multiple calibers, you also might need to increase your stock of ammo and components of said calibers to ensure you can reap the efficiency. So you're talking more space for the press, toolheads, shellplates, and other parts. And more space to store ammo, brass and components, in order to benefit from bigger loading sessions. A SS press can be much more space efficient for keeping a fleet of different calibers fed at modest volumes.

 

[Steve in PA]

I've been reloadin go a single-stage RCBS press for over 20 years. Besides reloading for all my hunting rifles, I also reload for .223 (AR), 9mm and .45acp along with many other calibers.

Personaly, I reload several thousand rounds of .45acp alone. Do everything in batches.

 

[Lost Sheep]

So.....there is really no concensus I'm gathering

No, there really is a consensus, just not on what press. The consensus is that you should get what fits your situation best.

Now, let me be a little more helpful:

I have been watching the thread since it opened, but waited until I had something contribute worth the bandwidth.

I missed the question in post #15 somehow, so will start with that:

Can someone tell me the difference between a turret and a progressive? I am very familiar with my sigle stage as it's all Ive used for 15 years. Honestly never even looked closely at either of the others

Short answer:

A single stage can only do batch operation, turret can do continuous operation and a progressive only does continuous operation. Single is slow. Turret can be maybe 2 to 4 times as fast and progressive up to 10 or 20 times as fast.

Single stage is $50-$100. Turret is $80-$150? Progressive is $150-$2,000 (these prices are wild guesses, as I have not priced them in a while).

Swapping calibers on a single stage is no big deal. Swapping calibers on a turret is no easier or harder than on a single stage, unless you invest in extra turret heads. Then it is a no-brainer taking less than a minute and allows you to keep your die adjustment settings permanently. Caliber swaps on a progressive goes from difficult and expensive to merely an inconvenient fiddling around. It varies to widely for me to be more specific, but progressive users can tell you. I only have experience on one brand/model of progressive.

Long answer:

A turret is a single stage with multiple die stations. That is the only operational difference. But that difference allows a turret to do either continuous operation or batch where a single stage is practical only for batch processing.

Single stages tend to be (but are not necessarily) stronger and stiffer. This is mostly because single stages' frames are usually of one casting where turrets are of at least two parts assembled, and they move, which pretty much requires some clearance. In practice, the difference is vanishingly small. Bu we still argue over it.

Like a single stage, a turret press does only one thing (operation, like size/deprime, belling case mouth, seat/crimp) at a time, but switching between those is nearly instantaneous. This makes continuous processing practical.

Batch processing, you are familiar with. You can do your batches in 50 as I do or 20 or 100 or 1,000. But the operations are the same. (For pistol) Size/deprime and prime 50 rounds, then switch dies and bell and charge 50 rounds. Inspect the charges in a batch and switch dies. Seat and crimp 50 rounds. Batch is done. Move on to the next batch.

Continuous processing: Put the empty case in the press and do all the operations (size/deprime, bell/charge, seat/crimp) and remove the finished cartridge only when all the steps are done. This saves a lot of handling the cases (at least three insertion-removal cycles) and amounts to a lot of time saved.

If the press indexes the dies automatically, this saves a LOT of time. If you index the die stations manually, it is a little slower, but still much faster than batch processing.

Turret presses can do either batch processing (as a single stage) or continuous processing with equal facility.

Because many loaders of bottleneck (rifle) cartridges do manual operations or inspections in the middle of the loading process, they choose to break up the continuous process into smaller groupings of operations, making loading a hybrid of batch and continuous. Other loaders of such cartridges use the continuous process, but temporarily interrupt the process to pull each case from the press before continuing.

Progressive presses can do batch processing, but are designed from the ground up to do continuous processing. It is simply their only reason for being; production rate.

Progressives, by definition do multiple operations simultaneously (except if the operator desires single operation, which can be done). That multiplicity of operation allows producing one completed round with each cycle of the handle. This is true whether the progressive is a 3-station, 4-, 5-, 6-, or 7-station press. Extra stations allow for adding things like a powder-check die or separating the seating and crimping operations, but detracts nothing from the one round per stoke output.

I suggest you view the many (almost too many) videos showing the operation of various presses.

Whatever method(s) is(are) chosen for your new press (you know you are going to buy it), if the production algorithm is well designed for the cartridge and the user it will work and is, by design, perfect for them, their temperament and production needs. So, you could use the press one way and your .223 shooting buddies might use it slightly differently.

No harm, no foul.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

Another "selling point"

Yeah. I guess I need to talk with the two friends I reload with and see what they are willing to do $$$ wise. That is probably the only caliber I would reload on the progressive. My rifle cartridges I just want more control over. They would prob both reload plinking rounds for their AR's in the progressive or turret so maybe I can sell them that way. Unfortunately our reloading setup is 90 minutes away at my buddy's ranch. Otherwise this wouldnt be as big a deal. I just hate spending my outdoors time inside reloading when all I want to do is shoot!

Here's another "selling" point for your friends. You each can have your dies mounted permanently in your individual turrets. Say you are loading .45ACP and stop to rest. Pull your turret and shell holder out and step away. Your buddy can install his .223 shell holder and his turret with dies and start loading immediately.

This could work for most progressives, but having carriers completely set up is a little more expensive.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

Thanks for asking our advice. My recommendations and opinions

My previous post (#82) was pretty much all facts to the best of my knowledge. I saved my opinions for this post.

90 minutes to go shooting, and then you have to spend your valuable range time indoors loading in order to shoot?

Yeah, you need a faster setup. Or a setup you can use at home. Or both faster and home. Maybe portable between home and range, too.

Recommendation: Short version.
A turret press could cut your loading time by a factor of 3, give or take. I like the Lee Classic Turret for its speed and ease of caliber swaps, which you may find compelling. The Lee's caliber swaps will be cheaper than other turrets since your buddies probably will want to have their own turret with their dies. Lee turrets are $10-$13. Lyman's are like $60 (but have more stations). If the greater speed of the progressive puts you over the decision point, make sure caliber swaps are included in the decision, for the time and complexity involved as well as the price (getting a complete carrier makes swaps easier, but is more expensive, though probably worth it for your situation).

A little personal history: My single stage production rate was around 50 rounds per hour and few loaders can produce more than 65-70 on a sustained basis.

On my progressives, I never achieved more than 250 rounds per hour peak (cyclic rate) and more like 150 as a sustained rate. Caliber swaps were problematic. I also was never very comfortable with monitoring multiple simultaneous operations. So I went to an auto-indexing turret press.

My turret press allows me to sustain an easy 100 round per hour (and that includes keeping up with primer and powder replenishment, inspecting brass and completed rounds and boxing up the production). Caliber swaps are dead simple and operation is no more complex than a single stage press.

Excluding my brass tumbler, my entire loading setup (seven calibers, press, powder scales, miscellaneous small tools, calipers, safety glasses, etc.) all fit in three medium size toolboxes-largest is 24"x10"x10", plus a folding workbench and a dropcloth. I can set up in 10 minutes and tear down in 5.

Afer 35 years my loading style and needs settled me into my setup and methodology.

What REALLY keeps me on a turret press is that I prefer monitoring one operation at a time. Loading is relaxing that way (not unnerving as it was FOR ME on my progressives). The Turret is also smaller and easier to set up and to put away as I do each loading session. But that is my situation, not yours.

However, my experience has some value for you. Excluding a scale, a first-class setup like mine, bought new, for a single caliber, about $230. Additional calibers, about $40-$50. $20-$25 more if you want to have a dedicated (pre-set-up) powder measure for each caliber. Caliber swaps are 15 to 30 seconds with the dedicated powder measure.

So, as I see it, your choices are:

1) Load at home. (which is, in my mind, a viable option with single stage or turret)

2) Get a faster press (Auto-indexing Turret) with the added benefit of easy caliber swaps.

3) Get a faster press (Progressive) for use at your range. (Splitting the cost with your buddies was a smart move, but may or may not make sense if you get a press that is difficult to change calibers on.)

Here's another "selling" point for your friends. You each can have your dies mounted permanently in your individual turrets. Say you are loading .45ACP and stop to rest. Pull your turret and shell holder out and step away. The next user can simply install his .223 shell holder and his turret with dies and start loading immediately.

Now, bottom line. My recommendation:

Lee Classic Turret or a progressive that allows easy caliber changes.

Lee Precision makes the ONLY turrets in current production that offer auto-indexing and their spare turret heads are a fraction of the price of the others. Lee Deluxe turret is less expensive, but the Classic Turret is far more than worth the extra money. My RockChucker is retired (waiting for a job the turret is as well suited for). My Progresssives are gone.

If you are VERY jealous of your range time, I can be easily convinced that a progressive is better for you, especially since you have two other pockets to help finance the purchase of one that features easy caliber swaps.

The portability of my system is not so great a value to you since you have good reason to leave the press at the range, but if your buddies don't want to take the plunge and you can load in your home (temporary setup), I highly recommend it.

Thanks for reading.
Lost Sheep

 

[xmanpike]

Lost Sheep:

Thank you for taking the time to give me your insight. A lot of what you said makes sense. One nice thing is that the primary pistol caliber that all three of us shoot is .45 ACP. They would probably also get a set up for .223 for their AR's, and who knows, I might even jump on the black gun bandwagon someday (just awfully fond of those bolt actions).

I too am overly careful regarding my reloading techniques and when I taught both of these guys, used the same exact step by step method that was taught to me to ensure as mush safety as possible. That point alone regarding the Progressive worries me. I have yet to have an over/undercharged round or a squib. It seems from what you are saying that if I am going to get a progressive, I will in someways be defeating the very purpose of it, because I will be checking all the time to make sure everything is doing what its supposed to be doing.

Sounds like a Lee Classic Turret Press is in my near future. If I could do around 100 rounds an hour I could be happy with that. Get out there the night before, spend a couple hours realoading. Shoot those the next day. That night do the same thing and either shoot again Sunday, or take the rounds home with me and start stockpiling for a weekend so I dont have to load.

Thank you everyone for all of your help. It's always great to hear varying opinions, especially from people who have experience. I've found learning from other peoples' trials can be a heck of a lot cheaper than just trying something only to find out it's not exactly what you were looking for.

Happy Shooting!!!

 

[Lost Sheep]

You're welcom.

Lost Sheep:

I too am overly careful regarding my reloading techniques and when I taught both of these guys, used the same exact step by step method that was taught to me to ensure as mush safety as possible. That point alone regarding the Progressive worries me. I have yet to have an over/undercharged round or a squib. It seems from what you are saying that if I am going to get a progressive, I will in someways be defeating the very purpose of it, because I will be checking all the time to make sure everything is doing what its supposed to be doing.

Sounds like a Lee Classic Turret Press is in my near future. If I could do around 100 rounds an hour I could be happy with that. Get out there the night before, spend a couple hours realoading. Shoot those the next day. That night do the same thing and either shoot again Sunday, or take the rounds home with me and start stockpiling for a weekend so I dont have to load.

That is exactly what happened to me once on my progressive (it had only three die stations, no room for a powder check die). I ran my powder hopper emtpy once and did not notice until I had most of a batch of 50 loaded. I had to pull 25 bullets to make sure I got all the empty ones. Lesson learned the easy way, but not the easiest way. No blown up gun, but a lot of banging away on my bullet puller.

The one thing that batch processing does better than anything else is allow you to check the powder charge in your entire run (50 at a time if you are using a typical loading block).

A powder check die would accomplish pretty much the same thing, but it is a mechanical device like any other. So, (for right now at least) I don't believe in using a PCD.

Nice thing about the Lee Turret with its 4 stations is that if you use a 3-die set you can put a powder check die in the turret. There are many ways to accomplish what you need to do with the degree of assurance you want.

I know I may seem to be backing off my advice, but I am realistic enough to recognize that every debate has at least two sides.

Thank you everyone for all of your help. It's always great to hear varying opinions, especially from people who have experience. I've found learning from other peoples' trials can be a heck of a lot cheaper than just trying something only to find out it's not exactly what you were looking for.

Happy Shooting!!!

It has been truly said that the wise man learns from his mistakes. The truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

You're very welcome.

Lost Sheep

 

[xmanpike]

I like that!

 

[Lost Sheep]

I sent a PM

Check this thread

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=653691

Lost Sheep

 

[jcwit]

To answer the OP's question directly, only if you the, OP thinks it crazy.

 

[Hangingrock]

If by chance I had a bunch of Keebler Elves at my disposal slavishly working night and day then a single stage press would be my primary means of reloading.

With progressive reloading equipment proponents talk rate of production. I opt for ease of production. With experience rate of production is more or less dependent on the individuals comfort level. Quantity and quality are not separate issues when reloading. As for myself I have (1) single stage and (3) progressive units. Two of the progressive units (Dillon SDB) are suitable for handgun only and the third unit is suitable for handgun or rifle.

I’m a reloader as opposed to a handloader. There is a difference. As for handguns I’ve compiled a substantial amount of time at the 50yd and 25yd lines shooting Bullseye. On the other hand 10yds and under has gotten my attention also.

Reloading is not an avocation/hobby but an economic necessity. If I had the deposable income to do so I’d buy ammunition by the truck load and forget reloading all together.

 

[FROGO207]

If my economic means allowed me I would get one of everything and try to get the best tailored combo with every load I needed. Finding the perfect load is the fun part. Shooting it up so I can reload it again if only a bit better will come in a close second.

Hangingrock might be we need to move in next door to each other and I will load em and you can test em for me.

 

[CGT80]

loading 45 acp on single stage sucks, but I used to do it. I have the biggest need for 9mm now. I load on a dillon 1050 with a bullet feeder. It would do 2000 rounds per hour if I didn't get tired of cranking the handle. I can do a 100 or so at that speed. 300 in 20 minutes is easy. Two guys could trade off cranking and filling primer tubes, bullets, cases, and powder and really knock them out.

Everything else I load now is done on a dillon 550 with a case feeder. It all depends on how much time and patience you have vs. money.