Is it "Wasteful"....?

[Flintknapper]

Is it “Waste”?

Boar hog killed 8/14/11





A quick picture taken this morning of the remains of the hog pictured above. It has been only 24 hrs. since the carcass was deposited in an open area on the ranch.



As you can see…only the head, the larger bones and a flattened hide remain at this point. In the next 24 hrs., you will not be able to find anything but the skull, all else… will have been dragged away and eaten.

Now, this only establishes one thing: In Deep East Texas (and most other places in Texas), the carcass of an animal will be readily consumed by any number of opportunistic feeders and scavengers.

What it doesn’t address... is whether or not people consider this to be a “Waste” of the meat resource.

I have seen a few comments posted here before….with folks taking different sides of the issue. Views from both sides have been expressed with equal “passion”, I would like avoid that (if possible) and just discuss the “logic” and stewardship of letting certain animal resources go “back to nature”.


What are your thoughts (and reasons for them)?

 

[JoeMal]

If you want/need the meat, then certainly eat him

But with hogs...since they are so much of a nuisance, I certainly don't think it's a waste to leave it. Like I said if you don't want the meat and are just doing it for 'crowd control', then to eat his own. You won't hear any gruff from me about leaving a dead hog. In fact, you can use that as bait for another hunt. Take your dead hog, put it in the middle of a clearing, and wait on the other critters (coons, hogs, yotes, etc) to come by for a snack. Easy picking for you.

Now deer, etc is another story but that's certainly not what we're talking about.

 

[788Ham]

If "you" can use the meat, use it! If hogs are destroying things like everywhere else across the US, then leave them, they more than likely won't be missed. I'm definitely not an advocate of just destroying animals for the hell of it, but if they're killing off deer fawns in the spring, tearing up real estate and ruining farmland by rooting, I'm afraid I'd have to leave one or two to the scavengers also. JMHO

 

[mbogo]

I would say that it depends on whether the hog was killed for meat or pest control. If you're trying to eradicate or control hogs on the property, I would not consider it "wasteful".

Feral swine are vermin in TX, like coyotes and prairie dogs; no one would expect you to eat coyotes or prairie dogs, would they?

mbogo
P.S. If you're trying to control hogs, I would suggest burning the carcasses to keep other hogs from feeding on it. If you want to return the carcasses to nature whole, dig a 3ft-deep trench, drop the carcasses in, pour quicklime over them, and fill the hole.

 

[Flintknapper]

Will anyone be bold enough to define "waste"?

Or...does it depend upon circumstance and context?

 

[788Ham]

Wanton destruction of any edible portions of a game animal. Like as mentioned earlier, if a pest control method, dig a hole and quick lime it and recover the hole.

 

[MtnCreek]

GA has a program where you can donate deer to feed needy people in the state. Probably nothing like this for wild hogs, but it would be worth looking into.

http://www.eregulations.com/georgia/hunting/help-feed-hungry-georgians/

 

[Sky]

I don't think so!!

Maybe some of the animals who feast on the carcass will develop a strong yearning for pork chops and help you get the ferals when they are still young. Buzzards, birds, and all sorts of critters will go to the burrows and roosts with a full tummy thanks to you and your efforts.

Nothing is wasted and you are providing a living for those who exist in the food chain. Bury it and it will turn to dust and not provide for endless critters.

Now that to me is a waste unless you got something against animals trying to eat and survive. Seems like I heard Porcupines will actually eat the teeth if there are any around your area? Isn't nature's food chain grand!

 

[bejay]

while I kinda agree it isnt wasteful as it was probably killed for being more a pest that causes damage think it would be better if you atleast tried to find someone who would take the meat if you wasnt going to use it, there is probably plenty of people that would probably love to have it probably wouldnt have to look to hard. probably someone within a few miles of you might of used it to feed their family.

 

[CTPhil]

If you're drowning in wild pigs and they are pests, it's not a waste especially if other animals eat it. Being a boar, the taint probably made it unfit for human consumption at any rate. Anyone going for the meat would want a female.

 

[Steel Talon]

It just depends on your attitude towards feral hogs..

Are they good eating? yes they are. So you can hunt them for the freezer.

Are they pests that are destructive? Yes they are,so many kill them as they would a rat. To control the destruction.

Texas has so many feral hogs,that they want them gone,however they only way they will let them be hunted beyond family and friends is to charge you for the privilege to hunt them from their land. <go figure>

So if your going to pay for the privilege you might as well eat them...

 

[Flintknapper]

So, what approach/explanation would you use/have to address the concerns of those raised to think "Don't kill it...if you're not going to eat it"?

I'm not looking for clever quips (I.E. do you eat the cockroaches you kill? etc) we can all come up with one of those, but a well reasoned response that will make sense to an ideologue.

 

[Steel Talon]

And there is nothing wrong with that choice / belief. Most hunters that come from a ranching or farming heritage understands the difference of control vs. food issues. Many hunters only believe in hunt to eat again not a problem.. Then you have our fore-fathers that used every part of the animal food clothing shelter and tool making. Where as the kill it for meat hunter has no problem discarding hide,bones organs and some meat.

 

[Sky]

So, what approach/explanation would you use/have to address the concerns of those raised to think "Don't kill it...if you're not going to eat it

Jeez I thought I did already with the food chain nature thingy......!!!

 

[bejay]

does it seem like a waste to you flint?
why do you feel the need to explain it, if the game laws are similiar in texas as they are in alot of other states shooting feral hogs is pretty much an open season all year round and they dont care whats done with the meat they just want them gone. is there any other more simple explanation.

 

[Cypress]

Well...when we first got hogs on our place I was still of the mind that the meat should be used if at all possible. I cleaned and ate all of the pigs I shot (4-5 per year). At some point it became an issue because I was passing up hunting if I didn't want to clean the animal. Our freezer was full. Friends and Neighbors only want the meat if you'll skin them out which is total BS. Nowadays, we may kill 30-40 per year and almost all of them are left where they fall. It's just not possible to use all that meat but the hog problem continues to grow. I don't feel the least bit bad anymore about leaving out food for the buzzards and coyotes. I kinda figure that the hogs do so much damage to the ecosystem that the least they can do is feed a few predators.

 

[Flintknapper]

bejay wrote:

does it seem like a waste to you flint?

Not in the least.

why do you feel the need to explain it,

There really is no explanation going here, I am just curious what other folks think about it and soliciting a little discussion on the subject. I'll give my personal opinion (and reasons for it) later...when/if the thread has had time to balloon.

if the game laws are similiar in texas as they are in alot of other states shooting feral hogs is pretty much an open season all year round and they dont care whats done with the meat they just want them gone.

Currently, in Texas...the game laws classify Feral Hogs as an "exotic" (non-native) and there are few restrictions as to how or when you may hunt them.

No season (can be hunted year 'round), No bag limit (take as many as you wish), Few limitations on weaponry (you can't blow them up or poison them), They can be hunted at night with artificial lights, etc...

So, yes....Texas (the State) is very much on board with the mounting pig problem we have.

is there any other more simple explanation.

Probably not. Just wondering what drives folks to develop certain positions. I suppose...like anything else, we become products of our environment and teachings.

 

[heeler]

I have a very good friend that has hunted for decades and was sternly raised with the mantra of only killing what you eat.
About twelve years ago I invited him to the south Texas ranch I hunt on.
After two seasons of seeing just what these non game species are doing to the native land and wildlife he,just like me,kills everyone he can get a rifle sight on.
And we have killed scores and scores on this ranch with a vengence and will continue to do so with great prejudice.

 

[Tape]

hey guys, does wild hog have a wild taste or does it taste like a regular pig?

 

[MtnCreek]

I'm not looking for clever quips (I.E. do you eat the cockroaches you kill? etc) we can all come up with one of those, but a well reasoned response that will make sense to an ideologue.

You do realize there is no such thing….

 

[g00dv4rmint]

I grew up in northern Montana on a farm and ranch. We raised much of our food (fed steers and had them butchered, got 50 chicks every spring and fed them until fall and butchered the chickens ourselves, raised a garden, etc) - It is surprising how few people today know where meat (chicken, beef, pork, ...) comes from. I hunted in the fall and we ate the deer and antelope. I also work with an organization that tries to buy an animal at the local county fair and we are unable to donate the food to the county food bank (we had to get a list of families needing help and give the processed meat directly to them). Sadly, I think it would be almost impossible to donate feral hog meat to local food banks.

Additinally, the time and expense to get food to the needy (if one ignores the potential liability issues if one of the consumers were to not prepare the meat correctly ....) is prohibitive when trying to get rid of a pest.

I don't think it is a waste any more than shooting a rodent (prairie dog or gopher) is wasted if left where it dies. (Although we have even picked up some of these to feed my mom's barn cats in the summer.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Not wasteful at all. You could keep an eye on the carcass and maybe kill a yote or another hog coming up to it. Just an idea.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Oh Oh Oh, Mr. Kot..., er, Flintknappairrrrrr {Arnold Horshack noises}

Is returning a pest species back to nature after killing wasteful if it can be used as food for humans. Is that the actual question at hand? I would assume this is pig specific.

Currently as you are in Texas, you are in a drought situation where prolific hogs are in competition with other indigenous and domesticated animals for food an water. Not only are they in competition with many of the other resources, they are doing quite well against them. Hogs are predatory on certain species as well. Then you have the predator population who is currently working to kill off your deer, livestock, and even the hogs.

So you could not kill the hog and let it continue to be a detriment to you and your resources or you could kill the hog. You chose the latter.

So you killed a hog that could have fed you or other people if you would have invested time, money, and potentially liability in butchering, processing, and care of the carcass until which time others could have it (since you don't want it), or you could choose to return to the hog to nature. You chose the latter.

So you returned the hog to nature. Was it a waste? You reduced the depredation on your resources (plant foods, water, ground bird populations, WATER, etc.), reduced competition with your desired animals (various birds, small game animals, deer, livestock), and you help alleviate some pressure on your desired animals by feeding the predators. From a stewardship perspective, I would say that what you have done is not wasteful, but beneficial to the local area.

 

[Flintknapper]

Cypress wrote:


Your situation is typical of what many landowners (small ranches/under 500 acres) are experiencing.

Well...when we first got hogs on our place I was still of the mind that the meat should be used if at all possible.

That was my position as well (25 yrs. ago) and I would go to almost any length to be sure the meat resource was used to its best effect. The next progression is for landowners to make use of the meat "when PRACTICAL".

I cleaned and ate all of the pigs I shot (4-5 per year).

I don't eat them, but know folks who do and your numbers are consistent with what we would take (in the first years we noticed an increase in the population). Not a big problem at that point.

At some point it became an issue because I was passing up hunting if I didn't want to clean the animal. Our freezer was full. Friends and Neighbors only want the meat if you'll skin them out which is total BS.

Yes, pretty much everyone has a full freezer (that wants one) and not too many people will turn down the pork IF it is already quartered up and on ice. Some will turn it down...if it is not completely processed.

Nowadays, we may kill 30-40 per year and almost all of them are left where they fall. It's just not possible to use all that meat but the hog problem continues to grow.

This year has been an exception for us...due to a lot of activity on the ranch, but in normal years we will kill between 35 and 50 hogs on one little 400 acre piece of land!

I don't feel the least bit bad anymore about leaving out food for the buzzards and coyotes. I kinda figure that the hogs do so much damage to the ecosystem that the least they can do is feed a few predators.

Even IF you did feel "bad" about it...there would be precious little you could do to change it unless you have a walk in cooler on your place and are willing to field dress the animal immediately....(then attend to skinning and butchering later).

What some folks conveniently forget....is that there are certain logistics involved in getting that meat resource into the hands of people that might want it.

For instance:

1. About 1/2 of our hogs are killed in the summer months. It was still almost 100° F when I got on my stand at 8:00 p.m., it didn't get out of the 90's until about midnight. Hogs spoil quickly in those temps!

2. I shot the hog a little after 11:30 p.m. on a Saturday night, the one before that....at 3:00 a.m., even IF someone were willing to take a "whole hog", I doubt anyone would appreciate a call late at night (early morning) to come and get it. They'd still have the task of skinning and quartering it!

3. The other option....would be that I dress the animal and then try to give it away. Possible (I've done it before), but again...in the summer months...you've got to really move.

The Back-straps (tenderloins) and the Hams (rear quarters) can be removed without having to gut the animal but some amount of skinning is still necessary. Then you've got to get the meat washed down and cooled.

Do that a few times after you've been up since 5:00 a.m., moved a stand, set it up, trimmed shooting lanes, tended to all the daily ranch chores, waited in the dark (and mosquitoes) for hours and hours until you finally get a shot.

Worrying about whether the hog gets eaten by a human vs. a canine suddenly become less a conundrum for you....I can attest.

O.K. I think I've starting "ranting". Back to the discussion.


Flint.

 

[ku4hx]

Waste? No such thing in nature. Plenty of little animals got fed and went to sleep happy and content.