Is it "Wasteful"....?

[Loosedhorse]

I think a lot of people have touched on something that I'm going to state: eliminating nuisance feral hogs is not sport hunting. It is pest control.

There is an ethic in hunting (and in life) against wastage; to put in in old-time language, the felled animal is given into your hands by the Grace of G-d, and wasting what you have been given is a sin. But pest control is not hunting; in pest control, the purpose of the killing is not to put food on the table, nor recreation. The carcasses of pest animals are routinely discarded.

But is that too facile? Most pest animals are small; if you kill a rat, well, I don't feel too bad about not making a sandwich out of him! A dead feral hog represents a LOT of ability to feed others, and (as has been mentioned) there are always people who would be happy to receive that meat.

What's missing is a charitable distribution system. If a pest hog's fresh carcass could be deposited at a location that had a mission to butcher it, refrigerate it, and distribute it (along with cooking instructions: WELL DONE!), that would allow us to take good advantage of the carcass.

But there is no formal system like that (given gov regulations, I'm not sure there ever will be), and I don't think we can ethically demand that each person who kills a pest hog has to become such a system individually.

So is it waste? Sure. Is it wastage in the sense that would be unethical in hunting? No. I'm sure someone can find statistics on how many pounds of food the average family in this country wastes, or how many tons of food the average restaurant wastes. Typically the same problems: no distribution system, and plenty of regulations.

 

[CTPhil]

As a farmer my point of view is that if it came from the earth and returns to it, it is not a waste. Waste would be taking something that came from the earth and mummifying it in a landfill.

 

[PreMod70]

Just imagine if this was in Germany where a biologist would take a count and fine the landowner for not killing the correct number of ferals. As I see it the quest for money has turned hunting into a money sport that has the ferals taking control since the landowners have no way of controlling the ferals without allowing the lowly poor folks to kill them off. This observation comes from a poor person , of course, so take it as you please but I and folks like me laugh when we read of the delima caused by the ferals, Viva la pig!!!

 

[Twmaster]

Flint,

My perspective is a lot like others here. I cannot see how this could be considered waste. By killing as many hogs as you can you are dealing with what amounts to a plague of vermin. As Art Eatman says, giant cockroaches. Buzzards, Yotes and other critters need to eat. If anything leaving those hogs out is the simplest form of recycling.

I've been following your sticky hog thread. If you were to try and keep all that meat for food you'd need a 40 foot reefer truck (or three) to keep it all.

I'm not a hunter in the 'sporting' and eat what you kill vein. If I ever did hunt for sport I'd eat what I killed.

I have zero qualms about eliminating a pest. Whether shooting a hog, swatting a fly, poisoning a crew of cockroaches.

Truth is I want to go on a pest control mission. Whether that be hogs, yotes or prairie dogs.

Flint. keep up the good fight. It's an uphill slog.

I also want to thank you for the informative and thoughtful posts on the subject of vermin control. specifically your battle with the swines!

 

[BeerSleeper]

If you hunt a game animal (deer, turkey, quail, etc.), I think you have an obligation to not waste the meat (for the purpose of my response, my definition of "non-waste" shall be to take for human benefit (whether yours or someone else)).

If you hunt a pest animal (coyote, prairie dog, feral hog, etc), I surely hope you don't eat it, but to each his own...

Feral hog is unique in that, it is a pest animal in need of severe population reduction, but it is also edible meat. If you can take the meat, I think you should, but if you cannot, I think taking the shot, and leaving the animal, is a more desirable outcome than to abstain from shooting.

 

[heeler]

Small hogs are not too bad to eat.
But large ones are some of the nastiest creatures I can think of.
Point in case was a few weeks ago while I was deer hunting in south Texas I killed over a two day period five large hogs.
The common thing among all five of them is that when I approached them on foot and got about ten feet from them they smelled as rank as a busy interstate highway public restroom.
No way am I gutting and skinning those wretched beasts.
There is some guy that hunts on the same ranch as I do that truely gets angry with me when he hears of me killing and leaving them lay but that does not bother me one bit.
They need to be eliminated before they are the cause of some sort of widespread pestilience that kills of the native species.
I truely hate those stinking swine.

 

[der Teufel]

Is it waste? Yes, definitely.

Is it avoidable? Not easily.

Most processes produce waste of some sort. Powerplants produce waste heat. We humans cannot digest everything we eat. Woodworking produces sawdust. Combines don't collect every single ear of corn that grows in a field.

Operating a farm or a ranch is a process, just the same as manufacturing. Managing resources and eliminating waste are essential, but not all waste can be eliminated. Is it better to allow the hogs to damage fields and crops (thereby allowing those resources to be wasted) or to waste the hogs and save the fields? There's almost no such thing as a hog-proof fence, and the cost would be prohibitive if there were. Trapping hogs is probably the most cost-effective solution, but you still have to get rid of them. I know ranchers who have trapped hogs and taken them to a buying station to recoup some expense, but the buying station won't take small ones, and they aren't necessarily located next door (besides the time lost there's a fuel expense in transporting them). One has to make a choice, and often the most cost-effective solution is to kill the hogs on the spot. If the meat can be used, fine. If not, there are plenty of other chores waiting to be done.

 

[BeerSleeper]

The common thing among all five of them is that when I approached them on foot and got about ten feet from them they smelled as rank as a busy interstate highway public restroom.

Do you think the domesticated hogs your grocery store pork is made from are any different from that?
Don't get me wrong, I like pork. I'm just glad they're as tasty on the inside as they are disgusting on the outside.

 

[35 Whelen]

I'd describe a hog of that size as "just the right size to leave lay". I eagerly butcher any hog 150 lbs. or so and less, but think nothing of leaving the big nasty, foul smelling boars right where they fell.

35W

 

[alsaqr]

Hogs are not game animals in OK. The "wanton waste" rule does not apply to them.

i kill and trap a lot of wild hogs: All of them get eaten by someone. Some folks are picky; they want a skinned hog and i've got really good at skinning hogs. In cool weather the hogs are skinned before field dressing. Takes me about 25 minutes to skin and field dress a hog that way. In cool weather dirty hogs go by the car wash before skinning.

 

[Flintknapper]

Wax....or no wax?

 

[Owen]

So, what approach/explanation would you use/have to address the concerns of those raised to think "Don't kill it...if you're not going to eat it"?

I kill rats and mice with wild abandon, but i don't eat those either.

 

[heeler]

Beersleeper,being that I have never been on a hog farm in my life I have no idea how much feral vs domestic differ in smell.
But since I have known feral hogs to wallow and feed on putirified carcasses of dead deer,other hogs and so forth I am not sure.
But I can certainly tell you every large hog I have killed and doubly so for the boars smell like a pissy over used public restroom.

 

[BeerSleeper]

Domestic hogs are the same. If there's a dead in the pen (these are normally removed promptly) and you don't see it, they will root on it until they get it's abdomen open, eat the guts, and wallow in the mess.

People who will regurgitate the old line, "hogs are naturally clean animals" watch too much TV, and believe too much of what they see without question.

 

[Steel Talon]

The real difference between farm grown and feral hogs is upkeep. Farm hogs will become as nasty smelling and cantankerous as their feral family members if allowed to.

However most growers/show breeders keep them in suitable pens, keep them doctored, control the wallow, and regularly hose em down..
Pig crap, pig piss and mud create a dam awful smell. Throw a boar or two into the mix, and you got some biblical odors.

Pigs are opportunistic eaters. Doesn't matter if is vegetable ,animal or human. Alive, dead, or in the process of dying. There is truth to the term "I'm going to feed you to the pigs"

I've seen pigs kill Raccoons, cats,snakes, skunks,chickens If they can get to it they will make a dinner of it.

Wild feral hogs are ecosystem pests, they ruin habitat, hinder the ability of a rancher/farmer to earn a living from the land, and have become a danger to humans in direct attacks. Wild Hogs possess the ability to contract life ending disease that can cross over to the human race.

It is not a waste, to kill these animals and allow them lay and to return nutrients to the soil. Even the legendary rabbits and their birth rates can't compete with the hogs birth cycles and litter numbers. Killing is the only way to gain control over these animals

Wild Hogs are pretty tastey,for as nasty as they smell. I sausage grind feral hog meat nobody ever complains about the taste...

 

[BeerSleeper]

Wild Hogs possess the ability to contract life ending disease that can cross over to the human race.

Please elaborate.

Even the legendary rabbits and their birth rates can't compete with the hogs birth cycles and litter numbers. Killing is the only way to gain control over these animals

Their reproductive rate is not that aggressive. At least not as compared to rabbits. They are similar to domestic hogs, gestation is 110-114 days, sows should cycle back into heat about a week after weaning, and litter sizes are about a half dozen. Figuring a two-three month nursing period, and average sow will be good for two litters per year. That means only a dozen pigs per female per year, and that's before taking into consideration the high rate of litter mortality. It can easily be 20% under controlled conditions in confinement barns, in the wild it is surely higher (admittedly I do not have this figure available to me).

I'm not disputing that they are pests...just a little fact checking.

 

[Steel Talon]

LOL.. A little comic attempt in my writing. A truer scope of things would be the sow ratios in the group. Ill use your numbers .. 6 sexually mature sows X12 piglets each
72 piglets a year for the herd. - %50 mortality "36". How many hoards with 6 sows can 5 sections support? (1sq mile /640 total acres per)support? 3/4/5 more?

Hogs Unchecked w/o human predation, and conducive living environment. That's a lot of "Rabbit breeding" hags.... Hogs don't have many natural predators, and once the decimate the environment they just move on to the next trophy ranch.

It's bad when 3 ranch families get together to mount an air assault control effort Helo's and shotguns. Remove over 300 hundred pigs in 3 weeks. And with in 90 or so days it was if the effort never occurred

As for probability cross-over pathogens I'll let you google that. Swine are susceptible to numerous pathogens. Left unchecked by growers will decimate domestic herds,and some can easily cross over. Wild hogs can be ideal carriers,since they do not receive inoculations and such.

Historically many pandemic diseases that have struck the human populace,have come from animals and insects.


**I'm definately not a expert here.. My knowledge is limited, dated, and greatly dwarfed by the Wild HAWG knowledge of others in this thread. My experiences are different but accurate for me.

I hunt HAWGS 3-4 times a year, Cause its easy, I sit in a stand,watch over the feeder read a book and kill the hawgs when the feeder (dinner bell) goes off. I have my Hawg meat ground and seasoned into various sausage meats, We bring back a couple hundred pounds between us. I give some away to good friend, we have sausage BBQ's with plenty of beer,bourban, and cigars. Horse Shoes, rings, dominoes and guitars.

 

[BeerSleeper]

I've just seen their reproduction compared to rabbits several times now, and felt like digging this one down to the facts. Rabbits are probably a poor comparison. A better comparison is probably some other wildlife, like deer. Deer have average litters of 1, with the occasional set of twins, and are still able to reach excessive levels of population.

I think the lack of natural predation is the bigger problem. Coyotes will take piglets, and probably juveniles as well, but the adults reach a size where the probably have little reason to fear coyotes. There's mountain lions, but I would imagine if you have enough of them to control your hog population, you have other problems.

I would venture that 5 sections could support a lot of them, IF it was the primary purpose of them. If they were my sections of farmland/ranchland, ideally they'd be supporting 0.

 

[CraigC]

Nothing wasteful about a dead hog.

 

[Art Eatman]

Looks like the poor ol' hoss is gettin' sorta tired...