Is it worth it to get a C & R license?

[Turftech1]

Hi all,
just wondering if there are any of you who have received a C&R license, and if it has been worth it.

I don't currently have a lot of milsurps, but I really like them, and am thinking about using them as investments. Can I really get better deals online? Even if I go the investment route, this would only be a small part of my savings, maybe 2-3 rifles/year. Should I pay the $30 and get a license, or scour the local gun exchange site?

Thanks!

 

[il.bill]

One or two C&R eligible firearm purchases per year will usually more than pay for the cost of the license, and the record keeping requirements are not all that bad, so YES, get one.

The only suggestion I have for potential 03FFL Licensees is to have your significant other hide all but one of your credit cards. Once the C&R firearms start being delivered to your front door, especially the handguns, it can be very easy to get carried away on your purchasing.

While the Mil-Surp and post Cold War eastern European supplies may be drying up, every year more firearms reach eligibility when they are over 50 years old. Having something like a reasonably priced eligible Walther P.38 or P1 delivered to your door step with no transfer fee required is a hoot.

 

[Turftech1]

One or two C&R eligible firearm purchases per year will usually more than pay for the cost of the license, and the record keeping requirements are not all that bad, so YES, get one.

The only suggestion I have for potential 03FFL Licensees is to have your significant other hide all but one of your credit cards. Once the C&R firearms start being delivered to your front door, especially the handguns, it can be very easy to get carried away on your purchasing.

While the Mil-Surp and post Cold War eastern European supplies may be drying up, every year more firearms reach eligibility when they are over 50 years old. Having something like a reasonably priced eligible Walther P.38 or P1 delivered to your door step with no transfer fee required is a hoot.

Yeah, I am thinking you're spot on. I literally got butterflies in my stomach when reading about having a Mil Surp delivered to my door. How cool would that be?! Answer the door, and it's a k31, or a 98 Mauser. It would be like Christmas morning every dang time!

 

[lilguy]

I have a C/R lic so when I travel I just take a collectable with me on the spot. In Illinois you need it if you want to dip your toe in the world of NFA collecting.

 

[Jim K]

With an interest mostly in handguns, I decided a C&R license is not worth the record keeping trouble. The state does not recognize a C&R license, so even with C&R items (non-antique) I have to go through the state hassle. To fully comply with the law, even if I buy outside the state, I still have to have the gun registered through a local dealer (same as one shipped in). All in all, not worth it for a once-in-a-while milsurp rifle.

Jim

 

[Red Wind]

I've had a C&R since 2006 and found it to well exceed the $30 for 3 year cost in the savings and enjoyment it's given me. Over 2 dozen Mil-Surps have been collected, from the 1938 Mosin Nagant to the 1982 CZ-82 pistol. On the few occasions I've consulted the ATF for advice or opinions, they have been totally polite and professional at their Martinsburg,WV locale.

However, this comment by il.bill is spot on. The pleasure and ease of having firearms delivered directly to your door can easily lead to addiction. A very cool one though!

The only suggestion I have for potential 03FFL Licensees is to have your significant other hide all but one of your credit cards. Once the C&R firearms start being delivered to your front door, especially the handguns, it can be very easy to get carried away on your purchasing.

 

[aarondhgraham]

I got all nostalgic,,,

I literally got butterflies in my stomach when reading about having a Mil Surp delivered to my door. How cool would that be?! Answer the door, and it's a k31, or a 98 Mauser. It would be like Christmas morning every dang time!

I did have those butterflies waiting for the mailman to deliver a "British .303" to my front door.

I would come home from school every day screaming,,,
"Did it get here today?"

But at the time I was 12 years old,,,
I had ordered it for $14.95 plus $2.00 shipping from Aldens Mail Order Supply.

That was in 1963 though,,,
Before you had to be federally licensed.

~sigh~

Aarond

.

 

[AlexanderA]

With collectors' guns (which is what C&R's are, after all), condition is everything. There is no substitute for personal inspection, no matter how many pictures are posted online. Therefore, at least to me, a C&R license would have very limited utility. In fact I had one many years ago and I found that to be the case. There may be some limited circumstances, such as when purchasing a C&R machine gun across a state line, when the license would come in handy. My venue now, for collecting, is gun shows.

 

[Turftech1]

With collectors' guns (which is what C&R's are, after all), condition is everything. There is no substitute for personal inspection, no matter how many pictures are posted online. Therefore, at least to me, a C&R license would have very limited utility. In fact I had one many years ago and I found that to be the case. There may be some limited circumstances, such as when purchasing a C&R machine gun across a state line, when the license would come in handy. My venue now, for collecting, is gun shows.

I was wondering about that. I have bought 2 Mosins, and they were both awesome. I told my neighbor about how much I loved them, and he bought one unseen, and it was a total dog. Headspace issues stock beat to death, and some fairly serious rust damage.

I also know of a local guy who ordered a whole crate of Mosins listed as "good" condition. It was like he won the lottery. 3 of them were hex receivers, they were all in awesome condition. All of them came with the accessories package. I think he could turn right around and make over $1k without even cleaning the cosmoline off.

I guess it's just a spin of the roulette wheel.

 

[giggitygiggity]

Yes, it definitely is. I have had my C&R for about two years and have used it to buy about 15 firearms. If I had bought those firearms and gone through an FFL, it would have cost me at least $300 in transfer fees. The license pays for itself in one or two purchases and many retailers will offer discounts for those holding an FFL whether it be an 01 or 03. For $30, even if you don't use it, it's very little money to be out. The application is easy to fill out and the cost is right. And no, unless you're doing something you shouldn't do, the ATF is not going to bang down your door.

 

[The Alaskan]

I guess I'll be the contrarian on this one. (Big surprise, eh?) I got one and held it for the 3 year duration and was never able to use it.

We don't have that many gun shows up here and they mostly suck for C&R types, so I got one thinking I would buy pre-64 Winchesters and old revolvers through gunbroker and similar sites. What I found was that, in every case wherein I wished to buy a C&R eligible firearm, the seller refused to ship to a C&R licensee and insisted on shipping to an FFL, incurring the transfer fees, NICS check and fee, etc etc, the same as if I were buying an AR15.

So, when the renewal paperwork came in the mail, I trashed it all.

 

[cc-hangfire]

I'm too lazy to look back through the BATF website & give you a link to the info, but paraphrasing what I remember: the sole purpose of the C&R license is to allow a collector to acquire C&R firearms in interstate transactions.

If you only buy locally, you won't save any money by having a C&R license. If you buy from out of state dealers and pay transfer fees at your local gun shop, you'll start saving money around the second C&R firearm.

Example 1: if I buy a modern (not C&R) gun from out of state, it ships to my local gun shop, I pay them $20-$25 and fill out the 4437 form, and my LGS logs it in their records.

Example 2: if I buy a 1962 J C Higgins pump shotgun from an out of state dealer & he will ship to a C&R license, after sending payment & a signed copy of my C&R to him, he ships the shotgun directly to me - no additional fees to anyone - and I log it into my record book. (As Alaska pointed out, not all dealers ship to C&R holders; verify before buying/bidding. I've gotten some good deals on gunbroker myself, but I ask about shipping to a C&R before bidding.)

Example 3: I see a Mosin at my local pawn shop that is a C&R firearm. I buy it but - since they are a FFL in my state - they make me fill out the 4437 form and enter the sale in their log. No extra fees paid, and since I did not use my C&R to acquire the rifle, I am not required to enter it into my record book (but I could if I felt the need).

Shipping methods are a whole other discussion, and the shipper makes that decision anyway. (As a C& R holder, you are a collector and not a dealer in the eyes of BATF.)

 

[Neo-Luddite]

I've had one for over ten years. Not much money or work to get one. I've bought a whopping 4 guns with it in all that time and it was still worth it. It gets you a few little-bitty perks here and there--some outfits will give you better pricing with it. Theft of your C&R guns in your collection becomes a Federal crime---not that there is really an upside to this possibility, but it sounds impressive. You'll become familiar with the truly byzantine and sometimes bizarre rules that govern firearms in our great country. The biggest hassle and letdown is when you find someone on Gunbroker (or elsewhere) who refuses to sell eligible guns to a C&R type 3 licensee directly. I simply won't deal with those people.

 

[MechAg94]

I agree on getting a firearm delivered to the door. CMP rifles get delivered that way. Even cooler is missing the delivery and picking it up at the Fedex depot. (even though it is a pain)

 

[OpticsPlanet]

I did it, just to say I did it once

and I am pretty interested in grabbing a CMP gun, so it was worth it for me

-Matt S.

 

[il.bill]

The real C&R deals on handguns come from big sellers like AIM Surplus, Classic Firearms, Southern Ohio Guns, J&G Sales, Widener's, Bud's Gun Shop, et al. who get breaks on shipping due to large volume.

There is simply no cost effective way for small sellers on forums or GunBroker (like me) to legally ship a handgun directly to an 03FFL holder. As an 01FFL I can send handguns to licensed dealers through the US Mail at my local post office, often for less than $25. That same CZ82 going to an 03FFL holder has to go by air freight using FedEx or UPS - that would cost me $65 to $80 altogether. It is usually cheaper for the buyer for me to send it to a dealer for transfer at $20-25 S/H plus $20-25 transfer fee.

 

[Quoheleth]

I had one from 2011-2014, thinking I could jump in to the cheap import market. Unfortunately, I got my C&R just as prices on CZ82s, SKSs, etc., jumped tremendously. My secondary plan was to use it to get "dealer pricing deals" on reloading components, but this was the height of the component shortage and stuff was hard to find. In 3 years, I didn't use or benefit from my license. I didn't renew when it came up last year and I probably won't bother again in the future.

My point is go into it eyes open, know what it will realistically do for you, and what it can't do. Its not that expensive to try it once and, if nothing else, you can always say you were a licensed gun collector (not "dealer"!)

Q

 

[joem1945]

I've had mine for over 10 years. I think it's paid for itself several times over. The downside, Your always looking for more C&R listings. Downside, you'll but more guns then you might normally buy. Is that a bad thing, NO.

 

[Ed Ames]

With collectors' guns (which is what C&R's are, after all), condition is everything. There is no substitute for personal inspection, no matter how many pictures are posted online. Therefore, at least to me, a C&R license would have very limited utility.

I think it depends on how you approach the problem. E.g. when I had a C&R I used it three ways: 1) to purchase in person but out-of-state, in which case I could do a full inspection. 2) to purchase multiple examples, with the intention of picking out the best for my own collection and disposing of the rest. 3) to purchase from sellers who offered an inspection period and by preference had a good track record.

Combined with the midway and Brownells discounts it was easy to justify.

 

[ljnowell]

The real C&R deals on handguns come from big sellers like AIM Surplus, Classic Firearms, Southern Ohio Guns, J&G Sales, Widener's, Bud's Gun Shop, et al. who get breaks on shipping due to large volume.



There is simply no cost effective way for small sellers on forums or GunBroker (like me) to legally ship a handgun directly to an 03FFL holder. As an 01FFL I can send handguns to licensed dealers through the US Mail at my local post office, often for less than $25. That same CZ82 going to an 03FFL holder has to go by air freight using FedEx or UPS - that would cost me $65 to $80 altogether. It is usually cheaper for the buyer for me to send it to a dealer for transfer at $20-25 S/H plus $20-25 transfer fee.

If you have an ffl01, why can't you sent a gun usps to an 03? Not having an FFL that's the first ice heard of that law. The FFL03 is still a "licensee" isn't he?

 

[dogtown tom]

ljnowell If you have an ffl01, why can't you sent a gun usps to an 03?

USPS regs restrict mailing firearms other than rifles and shotguns to dealers and manufacturers (and certain LE).

Not having an FFL that's the first ice heard of that law. The FFL03 is still a "licensee" isn't he?

USPS regs do not mention FFL, but licensed dealer and licensed manufacturer. USPS regs do not refer to "licensee".

 

[fallout mike]

Got mine a few years back thinking I would buy a lot. Well, I did. But I started seeing them in LGS's around town cheaper than where I could order them from. Never used it and just let it expire last year.

 

[simonstough]

i've been thinking about getting mine for a few weeks myself, how can i check if s gun is eligible? a star model b for instance, they were made from like the 40's up until the 80's i think, some are ineligible some arent, how do i find out?

 

[Capybara]

I just let my FFL03 lapse so that means I have had it for three years. It is well worth it, IF, you want to collect. It is too easy to go nuts and buy a lot of C&R guns though, it is a taste of freedom that we in California, rarely get. I can still have C&R long guns shipped to my door but now we have to self-register them and pay the CADOJ $19.00 to do so. C&R handguns also have to go through an FFL01.

So for me, I have built my collection, the safe is full and I enjoy owning and shooting a lot of C&Rs. But as usual, California has basically taken all of the fun out of just being able to collect, having to fill out a form and self-register and pay means I am done with having an FFL03. If you live in a free state, where you can receive C&R long guns and hand guns, yes, I would definitely get one. C&Rs are a blast.

Simonstough, a gun is eligible if it is 50 years or older OR is listed in the ATF's C&R guide. Google it and make sure you also look at the 2010 addendum also. There are plenty of C&R guns that are newer than 50 years old. The Radom P64 comes to mind, the CZ82, etc. There are also lots of those lame commemorative guns that are C&R also, Albanian SKS from the 70s, etc.

 

[DougW]

I just renewed mine for the 5th time. It was great back in the day when I ordered 6 #4mk1 Enfields for $75 each. UPS guy was kinda excited and insisted that we "inspect" them for damage, since a couple of bolt handles were poking out. No damage though, but since you can't buy M44's, Enfields, Mausers, etc. for less than $100 with no limits on the number you could receive, so I just use it for discounts with Brownell's. Haven't bought a "new" C&R in over 3 years, and these days I am actually selling some of them to try to pair down the collection.