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Is jhp overkill in 45 acp?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by brewer12345, Aug 8, 2018.

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  1. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    The old Ed Sanow book had the FBI .357 mag and the .44 magnum Speer stuff (older bullet designs- book was pre 1999)......as the highest 1 shot stop rounds. Guess there's a 3rd book now, with newer data/cartridges.
     
  2. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    As for shoot to stop a threat vs shoot to kill.............dead means no more threat.
    But if all I had was a edge target (leg or arm) I'd shoot that (get them out of the fight).
    Of course I wouldn't coup de grace em LOL.

    So far, never fired a shot at a person. Like to keep it that way.
    But if I gotta.........well, pretty safe bet they're gonna be dead.
     
  3. Bongo Boy

    Bongo Boy Member

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    Exactly. I also remember a student asking about the use of warning shots--oh man, the instructor went nuts on that one.
     
  4. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    Don't get so hung up on penetration that it blinds you to everything else
     
  5. SgtScrounge

    SgtScrounge Member

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    There is no such thing as overkill for self-defense.
     
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  6. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

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    Factory old-school .357mag (124-158gr) and .44mag (180-240gr) JHP/SJHP also kick tail in the gel tests that are now all the rage, Get enough velocity behind those loads and they don't care they are not the latest tech or if you interpose 4 layers of denim.







     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  7. Labguy47

    Labguy47 Member

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    Unless you are carrying a 460 or 500, I would think that most are just right any modern 9mm 40 or 45 should get the job done just fine. Definitely not overkill.
     
  8. MikeInOr

    MikeInOr Member

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    I have a XDs 3.3" and a XD mod 2 4" compact. I carry 45acp Gold dots in both of them. Both have been 100% reliable. You are welcome to carry what ever you think will serve you best.

    I keep ARX fraginable rounds in my night stand gun to minimize the penatration of dry wall.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  9. exbrit49

    exbrit49 Member

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    OK so it may sound crazy. but I carry the same ammo for SD that use for range practice. Its a 230G hard cast SWC. I have seen the damage it can do at most defense distances . They pack a wallop! The weight and velocity achieved are more than adequate.
    Some may ask why I choose to use a standard cast bullet. Simple... I want a round that will stop what I want it too. If am forced to make a shot in self defense, and the perp survives. I wouldn't want to find myself in court defending why I used an extreme bullet, specifically designed to cause as much wound damage as possible! Once a jury, was addressed by a good attorney showing the ads for HP Ammo and data on wound channels, they would have a field day.
    The results would invariably find that I would lose big time, no matter why I fired in self defense. The Jury would only hear that I used a bullet that was specifically designed to inflict more damage than necessary for self defense. Might want to factor that in your thinking!
    In 40 years I have only had to pull once and I didn't have to fire that time, the Perp RAN.
    Shot placement is all critical whatever round is used. I practice a minimum of once a week, more often twice. The practice sessions are very varied and allow me to shoot in many styles and speeds My carry guns get a real work out. My shots are always within a couple of inches of where I aim. To me thats a lot more important. An accurate shot to the vitals is key!
     
  10. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    So you're choosing a bullet that inflicts more damage because the other bullet inflicts more damage?
     
  11. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

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    I agree with you completely about shooting to kill, but a little while ago I got roasted for writing it down in plain English. Apparently that is a no-no, liability-wise. But I’m with you. In it’s simplest form stop means kill.
     
  12. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    Where do people come up with this? Name me one court case where the use of hollow point bullets was the deciding factor that sent someone to prison, other then something made up in Hollywood.
     
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  13. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    A good defence to any such claim is simply: "I used the same ammo the local cops are issued."

    And they all use hot hollow points.
     
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  14. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    If it's 45 ACP I'm good with ball. What exactly are you looking for, a 60 cal. projectile?


    Prosecution.
    I see you are using ammo developed for law enforcement. Do you consider yourself engaged in some type of law enforcement?:eek:

    Winchester T Series. "Law enforcement ammunition" right on the box.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  15. exbrit49

    exbrit49 Member

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    Its coming Guarantee it
     
  16. 25-20 WCF

    25-20 WCF Member

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    If I need to shoot to protect myself or others, I want to stop the threat, period. Compromising that goal with “fragible” or “less lethal” ammunition beased on what might, may or could happen weeks later kinda defeats the purpose of SD ammo. If I don’t live through the ordeal, I won’t care that I avoided fantasy charges or court time.

    .
     
  17. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    You don't need to worry about your choice of ammo being questioned by a prosecutor.

    "The cops carry guns everyday, so they're the experts. I used what the experts use." No prosecutor will even try to question that.

    The only question will come in the inevitable civil case.
    And if its a good shoot, the fact that you used an UZI set on full auto won't matter at all.
     
  18. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    In states where the Citizens have more rights than the criminals there can be no civil case if the shoot was good.
     
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  19. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    "Use it to fight your way to your rifle". I have heard that a lot, but never heard of anyone who actually had to do that. It sounds cool to say though.
     
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  20. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    If they did, and they got to their AR-10, or M1A1 loaded with 165gr soft point ammo, would they think, "Gee, maybe I shouldn't use this gun, as these rounds may over-penetrate and shoot clear through three or four people? Maybe, I should just stick to my Glock 17 with 115gr hollow points so I don't have a shoot through?"
     
  21. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    Harold Fish (though subsequently overturned)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power

     
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  22. fjblair

    fjblair Member

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    As long as your clip is loaded and you have one in the chamber, then you have properly armed yourself. Don't sweat the gun forum details.
     
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  23. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    I wish that were true, Tx! A good personal injury lawyer can find an excuse to sue Jesus for causing Pilate "mental anguish."
     
  24. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Unless you're using WWII vintage German experimental Poltewerke exploding 9mm, there's no such thing.

    What do your local cops carry? I GUARANTEE you that by your definition, it's "extreme".

    In Ohio, I can shoot an unlawful deadly force attacker and the law says he can pound sand as far as recovering damages.

    If I get a through and through and hit a bystander because I'm more concerned about protecting my assailant than myself, I'm toast. He or his survivors will OWN me.

    If somebody doesn't want a couple of 158gr. LSWC-HPs or 200gr. JHPs center of mass, then they shouldn't do things which make it prudent to shoot them.

    If you're more worried about the legal consequences of a legitimate self-defense shooting than the physical consequences of being maimed or murdered, perhaps you should reconsider armed self-defense.
     
  25. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    In Ohio, if Jesus shot Pilate in legitimate self-defense, Pilate could sue all day long. He just couldn't COLLECT.
     
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