Is Lee Alox lube good enough for .357 mag loads?

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Arkansas Paul

Arkansas Paul

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I've gotten a mold to cast 158 grain SWC bullets for my newly acquired .357 Ruger Blackhawk. I have only cast bullets for standard velocity ammo such as .40 S&W, .38 Special and .45 Colt. I have never tried to push my own cast bullets to anything near maximum magnum velocities. For my use, I have always just tumble lubed the bullets with Lee Alox and it has worked fine.

My question is, is that good enough for full throttle .357 mag loads?
I do not own a fancy automatic lube/sizer machine and really do not want to purchase one.

However, if the Alox lube isn't good enough, I can always buy some good lube and use the pan lube method.

Let me know if you've tried it and what your results were.

Thanks.
 
If you can get 40 S&W to work you should be able to get .357 to work. Both push a 155/158 grain bullet to 1250 FPS. I got leading with most 38 special and .45 ACP loads using Lee Liquid Alox.

I switched to powder coating and have used that exclusively since. The setup is reasonably priced but it does take longer.
 
If bullet fit is good, bullet to throat and barrel groove, Alox will work fine. I've pushed 327, 357, 41, and 44 to magnum velocities with no problems with straight Lee Liquid Alox and a mix of 60% LLA and 40% Johnsons Liquid Floor Wax.
 
As stated the first consideration is having the bullet fit the chamber and bore. I also prefer the Tumble lube method. Just use JPW/Johnson's Paste Wax. You may need a few drops of mineral spirits to soften the wax. I wax the bottom of a pan and shake the bullets around for a light coating. Allow the bullets to dry over night. Hard lubes do little at velocities of 1,000 fps or less. .

If you are running bullets above 1,500 fps.in a handgun use Linotype gas checks and a pressureized hard lube.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLubeCastBullets.htm
 
Just a note, the .357 Magnum and 40 S&W top out at the same 35,000 psi so like said above, if you can successfully load your bullets in the 40 S&W you can for the .357 Magnum too.
 
My question is, is that good enough for full throttle .357 mag loads?

I doubt it. You haven't told us what lead hardness you are using. At 1500fps I would think that you would have to be using hard cast lead and gas checks. All my home cast bullets are tumble lubed made with Lee molds and I've taken 158 gr SWCs made from wheel weights up to about 1200fps without serious problems but at 1500 I know I would be melting lead in my barrel without a heat shield between powder and the base in the bullet or stripping the bullet in the riflings with bullets that soft.

But you haven't said what lead hardness you are using. Wheel weights are around 8-10 brinell hardness and hard cast is up to 22 brinell hardness.

There is probably a good reason why all ammo manufacturers that really push the envelope of velocity with hard cast lead bullets use gas checks.
 
I must be loosing my mine because I realize that I posted a similar thread already a couple months ago.
Finals has me rattled. Oh well.

Thanks for the replies.

I will give it a try with the Lee Alox. I do mix it with Johnson's Paste Wax and a bit of mineral spirits and it works well with the other calibers I cast.

If I have issues, I may try the powder coating route.
I really don't want to though.
 
Yes alox is good enough for .357 Mag.
I've tried it in 6 different guns
A S&W Model 66-2, S&W Model 65-2, 3 different Ruger SP101s & a Ruger GP100.

I've had a little bit of leading, but that's more so because the bullets were too soft, than due to lubrication.
Quick swab with a copper wrapped mop & they're clean as a whistle.

Also used a dedicated tumble lube bullet & a standard bullet (still tumble lubed)

Velocities were in the 1,000 to over 1,100 fps range

Also used straight Alox & 40-40-10 mix of Alox, Paste wax & mineral spirits.
 
Arkansas Paul said:
If I have issues, I may try the powder coating route.
I really don't want to though.
Click to expand...

Dont knock it until you try it! Yes, it does take a bit longer than alox lubed bullets but in the end, I find the time spent a wash. You dont really have to worry about any leading anymore, loads aren't nearly as smokey and guns are overall much cleaner with powder coated bullets. Ive had success driving powder coated 158's over 2,000fps from a 16" tube using standard ~11bhn lead wheel weights. You also greatly reduce handling raw lead when reloading and shooting.
 
LLA won't do well above ~800fps IMO.

I've shot several 100thousand 148gr TL and 158gr TLSWC wadcutters with lla, but use 50/50Lee NRA or SPG with my gas checked handgun and rifle bullets.
I suggest you Pan lube even the TL bullets for more than 800fps.
For more than 1200fps a gaschecked bullet works better. I've applied gaschecks to TL designs successfully.
I've got a Lyman 450 sizer/lubricator I've used for 40yrs. A worthwhile investment!

I'm also playing with powder coating, but it's not a panacea. It still doesn't beat a proper hardness, properly sized and lubed gas checked bullet.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
<snip>

There is probably a good reason why all ammo manufacturers that really push the envelope of velocity with hard cast lead bullets use gas checks.
Click to expand...
Perhaps to make the bullets more universal, lacking the opportunity to match bullet size to throat and bore. Braggadocio is plentiful concerning mastery of barrel leading with plain bullets, but if you don't make your own or make the gun fit the bullet, buying gas checks for high power stuff is probably good.
 
I dont worry about leading.
I just push a choreboy down the barrel and its gone in seconds.
I tumble lube
No gas checks
And 1000fps
 
Gas Checks are not recommended at velocities below 1,500 fps. In other words few handguns bullets require a gas check. Gas checks add over 5 cents to your other wise economical cast bullets.
 
I'd rather not use gas checks.
And I'm in agreement with Dog Soldier. I don't believe for a second that a bullet at 1,200-1,300 fps needs one.

I don't think Elmer Keith used a gas check when developing the .44 mag and he did so with bullets of 11 BHN if I remember correctly.
Bullets the correct size are far more important than the hardness I've learned. Not that hardness doesn't play a part, but it is not the most important thing. Too hard a bullet can cause just as many problems as too soft a bullet.

I think I'll start with a load of 14 grains of 2400. That should put me between 1,100 and 1,200 fps. I know that is a popular load for the .357 mag.

I will give a range report after putting a few downrange.
 
Dog Soldier said:
Gas Checks are not recommended at velocities below 1,500 fps. In other words few handguns bullets require a gas check. Gas checks add over 5 cents to your other wise economical cast bullets.
Click to expand...
What harm would a gas check do? I would guess that opinions vary on the velocity threshold for use of gas checks. Other than rifles, 1500 is really high for the big bores. Doesn't seem like a good application for lead to begin with.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Gas checks are not necessary. Bullet fit is most important so be sure they are the correct diameter for your barrel.
Click to expand...
Gas checks are sold for a reason, one of which may be that folks don't own a mold for every variation in bullet diameter.
 
If the slug is meant for a check.
I use em.
If not i dont worry about it.
I like fairly stiff loads in my 357,44mag ,45lc,454s
And as i said before.
Leading aint the end of the world
10 seconds with a choreboy will fix it right up
;)
 
Gas checks do no harm use them all you want to. They simply add to the cost of a cast bullet. Their function is to reduce gas cutting and base deformation. Most bullet alloy such as Lyman #2 can handle pressures up to the point of developing 1,500 fps. Using them in longer barrels with alloys of BHN #22 can hold pressures capable of a 2,000 fps. fps. Cast bullets subject to a base pressure crating velocities above 2,000 fps become some what unpredictable. Cast bullets are rated to PSI always. If you are not educated in casting here is a link to help you. Good Luck:)

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
 
I have found that Alox works for most handgun loads. The thing I don't care for is that the bullets are kind of tacky. I use the 45/45/10 stuff (45% alox, 45% wood wax and 10% mineral spirits). I find it works as well or better to prevent leading but it dries more solidly.

The only bullets I have really had issues with leading and alox were in 9mm. For those I did some powder coating and had a lot of fun with it. I even powder coat some .44's and .45s now just for fun. It looks cool, you can drive them as hard as you want without leading and it is a great addition to the hobby for me.

Strictly speaking though, I believe that nearly any handgun caliber can be successfully produced without leading using alox. As others have mentioned, bullet sizing is far more important to prevent leading.
 
Schwing said:
I have found that Alox works for most handgun loads. The thing I don't care for is that the bullets are kind of tacky. I use the 45/45/10 stuff (45% alox, 45% wood wax and 10% mineral spirits). I find it works as well or better to prevent leading but it dries more solidly.

The only bullets I have really had issues with leading and alox were in 9mm. For those I did some powder coating and had a lot of fun with it. I even powder coat some .44's and .45s now just for fun. It looks cool, you can drive them as hard as you want without leading and it is a great addition to the hobby for me.

Strictly speaking though, I believe that nearly any handgun caliber can be successfully produced without leading using alox. As others have mentioned, bullet sizing is far more important to prevent leading.
Click to expand...

I actually tumble the loaded rounds briefly to remove the Alox from the exposed bullet. Corn cob media with a cap full of mineral spirits will take it off in 15-20 minutes.

As far as 9mm, I totally and completely gave up on casting for it. I had a nice RCBS mold and got rid of it. I would shoot two or three mags and it turned my carry gun into a smoothbore from the leading.
I think the main reason it's such a PITA is because the 9mm case is tapered which swages the bullet down to less than bore diameter.
If you put an expander ball out of a .38 S&W die in your die it will expand the case enough where it doesn't swage it down.

Too much trouble. Berry's plated bullets it is for the 9mm. I cast everything else in handguns.
 
Dog Soldier said:
Gas checks do no harm use them all you want to. They simply add to the cost of a cast bullet. Their function is to reduce gas cutting and base deformation. Most bullet alloy such as Lyman #2 can handle pressures up to the point of developing 1,500 fps. Using them in longer barrels with alloys of BHN #22 can hold pressures capable of a 2,000 fps. fps. Cast bullets subject to a base pressure crating velocities above 2,000 fps become some what unpredictable. Cast bullets are rated to PSI always. If you are not educated in casting here is a link to help you. Good Luck:)

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
Click to expand...
If bullets for sale ever listed a pressure rating in the specs, I sure missed it. I don't need to be educated in casting. I need to understand how to select bullets for sale.

Hey, guess what. I tried the .454 bullets you put me on to in my 45 Convertible NMBH with .454 throats. That's going to work, but it will be a Tier II gun (23k psi) instead of Tier III, the later of which I can still shoot in a Redhawk.
 
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