Is my 44 mag load considered a true "magnum" or ?

[westernrover]

You're over the pressure limit for a Special and within the pressure specs for Magnum. If it's in a Magnum case, it also won't fit Special chambers. It's a Magnum by SAAMI and CIP specifications.

 

[243winxb]

SAAMI velocity for mag & special is listed. Pressure also. Why the different velocities for 44 mag? The slowest may be lead bullets? OPs load is Magnum.

 

[dcarr]

My .45-110 Sharps is like a .45-70 Government "Magnum."
I'd never drive a Dodge "Magnum" (or any other car) after drinking a "Magnum" of champagne though.

driving ? I'm not sure i'd be walking

 

[ericuda]

Hum maybe loaded in a magnum case but may have to admit it is a wuss 44 mag load. My 49th has starting load for 240's at 18.5.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I cured my magnumitis pretty early with a 357 after thinking I burned all the hair off the backs of my hands. Now I have accuracy affliction. I consider 3 grains of W231 pushing a 148 grain wadcutter in a 357 case a magnum load now.

Slightly under Hornady’s and Lyman’s book max is enough to make my fingers tingle and 4 shots touching a quarter takes care of the rest. I’m good for about 2 cylinders before I find my stash of 38 Specials.

Hollow base or double-ended?

 

[cfullgraf]

If it is loaded n a 44 Magnum case then it is a 44 Magnum round.

Is it a full power 44 magnum round, only your published reloading data will confirm that.

I do not have to shoot full power loads any more. So much of my 44 Magnum and 357 Magnum shooting is hot Special loads in magnum cases these days.

I’ll pop off a few full power loads once in a while to remind myself of the recoil of a full power load including 460 S&W magnum.

So, for the OP, decide what your performance goals are, practice with them, and don’t worry about having ammunition that won’t fix an engagement. Just be aware that any ammunition you decide to reload, be aware of its limitations.

 

[DukeConnor]

I suppose all words are made up but they still mean something.

View attachment 1138841

That said, if it were just about power, his loads should still beat some 357 “magnum” loads.

In this case and the 357’s, it’s really about firearms strength and cases made to not be compatible with designs

I suppose all words are made up but they still mean something.

View attachment 1138841

That said, if it were just about power, his loads should still beat some 357 “magnum” loads.

In this case and the 357’s, it’s really about firearms strength and cases made to not be compatible with designs not strong enough for the additional pressure.

With the case capacity the 44spl and 38 spl have, one can load into their perspective magnum brothers power levels anyway, safely if fired from a strong enough firearm. It’s just not “safe” as the ammunition could find its way into a “special” firearm that doesn’t have sufficient strength for the additional pressures. Thus the extra 1\8” in case length…

Obviously I was referring to it's use in the firearms industry. There is no set criteria to define magnum vs non magnum cartridges. It is marketing gimick and has no meaning.

 

[Riomouse911]

You are fine where it is, OP. If the bullet lands where you want it on targets, I wouldn’t change a thing.

My “.44 Magnum” load of choice is 10.0 Unique and a 240 gr SWC. It, too doesn’t light the world on fire as far as “magnum” is concerned, but I am happy with it.

Stay safe.

 

[Varminterror]

So could anyone throw some opinions out if this would be considered a true "magnum" 44 load or not?

Doesn’t really matter if it’s fish or fowl, all that matters is if it gets you fed.

Much ado about nothin’, here.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

No not what I consider a true magnum round but I didnt vote because it's really a bit stout for a special.

 

[westernrover]

Obviously I was referring to it's use in the firearms industry. There is no set criteria to define magnum vs non magnum cartridges. It is marketing gimick and has no meaning.

There are set criteria. SAAMI and CIP have set criteria for the allowable pressure for each and also the cartridge and chamber length. Since almost all major firearms and ammunition manufacturers are either SAAMI or CIP members and abide by the published criteria, it's more than a gimick. As a whole, for over 100 years, the industry and market have depended on these definitions to allow appropriate ammunition to be safely chambered and fired in the corresponding firearms.

 

[Varminterror]

There are set criteria. SAAMI and CIP have set criteria for the allowable pressure for each and also the cartridge and chamber length.

There are specifications for respective individual cartridges, but there is not a standard demarcation between pressure maxima which constitutes a standard cartridge and that which constitutes a “magnum” cartridge.

For example, the .32 H&R Magnum has a pressure standard of 21,000, which is slightly below the pressure standard of the .38 Special, while the 454 Casull does not carry a “magnum” moniker, despite its 65,000psi pressure maximum.

So while the word “magnum” certainly is meaningful to identify a specific cartridge with its associated specifications, it’s not really meaningful as defining a pressure class of cartridges. More similarly, a baker is someone who bakes, but none of the people I know with the last name of “Baker” are making their livelihood by baking bread or cakes… “Magnum” is simply an identifier, not a defining characteristic.

In the case of the OP’s question, the defining characteristic of his ammo is that it is loaded into a 44 magnum case, hence it is 44 magnum ammo. There is no MINIMUM pressure standard, and loading low pressure in a magnum case would not allow the ammo to fit into a revolver chambered for 44spcl… so the discussion is trivial, meaningless. It’s just low pressure 44magnum ammo, and can’t be anything but that… “true magnum” is just some construct the OP is self-consciously trying to apply, I assume out of some generational machismo.

 

[mdi]

I believe the OP wanted to know if his load is in the Magnum range of pressure and velocity. Not common or routine nomenclature (kinda like "hard cast" has no definitive answer). According to some replies, any round fired in a 44 Magnum is technically a Magnum, even if loaded with 123 gr, balls over 3.0 gr. Bullseye. My thoughts are no, because his load does not reach minimum Magnum pressures. velocities or foot pounds of energy.

 

[Varminterror]

his load does not reach minimum Magnum pressures.

Can you share what is the minimum pressure standard for 44 Magnum? Or minimum velocity, or minimum foot pounds of energy?

SAAMI lists a maximum, but there does not exist a minimum. It’s a speed limit on a city street - you can’t drive faster than 40mph, but any speed below 40 is legal.

There is no “minimum pressure” listed on this page. Nor minimum velocity, nor minimum foot pounds of energy.

 

[mdi]

Geeeezzz!.
I am not a "numbers" reloader, nor do I post pages from published data. My loads are based on my published reloading manuals (I do have a chrony, but no pressure testing equipment). I reload to shoot so I can reload. Without exacting formula and reliable pressure testing who can tell me I'm wrong? I reloaded and shot 44 Magnum almost exclusively, from 123 gr. balls over a dusting of Bullseye (under Magnum velocity/pressures?) to 300 gr ingots over max/near max loads of WC820 (over Magnum?). Pointing out minor irregularities, while much of an ego trip, just adds to the "internet wisdom" and not worth reading...

BTW; driving 25 in a 40 MPH zone will get you a ticket (just nit-picking).

I'm done with this thread (and the picky forum gurus)...

 

[MDoutdoors]

Damn i just wanted some thoughts on the plinking ammo I like to shoot out of my revolver. However some yall might wanna chill out a little and go smoke a bowl or drink a beer or something

Yall take care and thanks for all the input and varying opinions, this forum is pretty cool

 

[.38 Special]

I'm with @jmorris. If it's in a .44 Magnum case, it's a .44 Magnum. Now, that's a light load, but such things are perfectly sensible. There isn't a reason in the world to think that every load needs to be fire-walled, especially when we are trying to be nice to older guns.

<edit> If we load the .44 Special to Magnum velocities, does that mean we are now shooting a .44 Magnum? Of course not.

 

[DukeConnor]

There are set criteria. SAAMI and CIP have set criteria for the allowable pressure for each and also the cartridge and chamber length. Since almost all major firearms and ammunition manufacturers are either SAAMI or CIP members and abide by the published criteria, it's more than a gimick. As a whole, for over 100 years, the industry and market have depended on these definitions to allow appropriate ammunition to be safely chambered and fired in the corresponding firearms.

I am referring to the term magnum. Calling a cartridge a "magnum" is a marketing ploy.

 

[2ndtimer]

FWIW, the Speer No. 12 loading manual starts .44 Magnum load data for 2400 powder at 15.9 grains, so 16.0 grains is definitely a “magnum” load, and well above the maximum listed load for .44 Special. So, I voted for magnum. But as others have noted, if the OP likes his results, that is what really matters and his load should be well within safe pressure levels for any .44 magnum firearm.

 

[Jim Watson]

Just by way of comparison, Elmer loaded .44 Special at 17.5 - 250 - 1250 and thought that was what he would get from the factories.

 

[DukeConnor]

There are set criteria. SAAMI and CIP have set criteria for the allowable pressure for each and also the cartridge and chamber length. Since almost all major firearms and ammunition manufacturers are either SAAMI or CIP members and abide by the published criteria, it's more than a gimick. As a whole, for over 100 years, the industry and market have depended on these definitions to allow appropriate ammunition to be safely chambered and fired in the corresponding firearms.

Say I wanted to create a cartridge. I want to name it 40 magnum. Does Sammi define the criteria for calling it a magnum ? No. I can call it anything I want. How about 40 super magnum black out. It's like naming a car.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

This will explain everything

 

[westernrover]

Say I wanted to create a cartridge. I want to name it 40 magnum. Does Sammi define the criteria for calling it a magnum ? No. I can call it anything I want. How about 40 super magnum black out. It's like naming a car.

The question wasn't about those cartridges, but about 44 Special and 44 Magnum, both of which SAAMI does define.

 

[westernrover]

This will explain everything
View attachment 1139189

So instead of calling a cartridge like the 444 Marlin or the 357 Maximum a "Super Magnum" we could call them 444 and 357 Jeroboam. And the 460 S&W could have been called a 460 Methuselah. Nice.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

So instead of calling a cartridge like the 444 Marlin or the 357 Maximum a "Super Magnum" we could call them 444 and 357 Jeroboam. And the 460 S&W could have been called a 460 Methuselah. Nice.

.577 Methuselah sounds more cooler.
[.577Snyder lengthened 0.150” and loaded with smokeless]