Is picture ID on a DL and a CCL an absolute must to ensure public safety?

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

sig970

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
139
Location
Pacific Northwest
I was reading this article on Yahoo about a muslim woman refusing to take her veil off for her drivers license, and it just started the wheels turning. As I look down at my Drivers license and CCL, I personally feel that a picture is needed. Example: how do the police know it's her at a traffic stop? What if she is OK'd for the drivers license, and then wants a CCL? What if I didn't have a picture on mine, lost them, and then someone else started using them?
It just brings up questions of public safety vs. a national picture ID registry. Are our pictures absolutely necessary on all of the ID we have. We don't have a picture on our Social Security Card, but then that is not license to operate something, like a vehicle, or to carry a handgun. What is she wants to buy tabacco or alcohol? How would you know it's her?

Anyway, I thought I'd throw this out there.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Religion_News
 
Crap like this make me sad to live in Florida....:fire: Hopefully the judge will see through this smoke screen and through this out. :fire:
 
She could not take the veil off in front of another man (but her husband) when pulled over anyway, so what's the point?

Sheslinger
 
Yes. An individual's right to express religious beliefs via wearing a veil does not supercede the public's right to safety.

Veil wearing women should be photographed. When feasable and convenient, female officers should be called on to make the ID.

When it is not, off with the veil.
 
The picture on the ID is not for safety of anything, but as a means to be able to tie that ID with the person to which it belongs. The card won't work as a form of ID if you can't substantiate that the person pictured on the card is the one presenting the card. Without a picture or without the face being shown in the picture, the card loses its value as a functioning form of ID or to substantiate that it belongs to the person presenting it.

The Florida case is pure crap as near as I can tell. As most states will tell you, driving is not a right, but a priveledge. If you want to drive, you must have a DL and obey all the rules pertaining to the DL and operation of a vehicle. DLs require a picture. If the woman feels that it is a violation of her religion to show her face on her DL, then she can either opt not to get a DL. That is her choice.

Think about it. Say you get into an accident with somebody who decides they don't want their face on their DL and the accident is the fault of the other driver. You get presented with their identification, only you have no way of knowing if it is really theirs since you can't match the DL with the person who presented it to you. Maybe it is theirs, maybe not. How about for check cashing or buying a firearm?
 
Erik,

Yes. An individual's right to express religious beliefs via wearing a veil does not supercede the public's right to safety.
Click to expand...

What does supercede the public's right to safety?
 
This case should never be anywhere near a court. We have reached a point of absurdity. The Koran does not trump civil law in this country. And, no, we don't need interpreters of Islam to run interference on this one, ACLU.
 
The protections in the BOR supersede "public safety," but, as you know, driving a vehicle on a public highway isn't one of those.

Mikul, we can eliminate "papers" when we eliminate the transfer of wealth we refer to as public benefits and entitlements. Don't hold your breath.
 
The protections in the BOR supersede "public safety," but, as you know, driving a vehicle on a public highway isn't one of those.
Click to expand...

The BOR doesn't mention "driving a vehicle on a public highway" but the Ninth Amendment states that "the enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." The fact that a right is not mentioned in the Constitution does not mean it does not exist because the purpose of the Constitution is to set forth what the government may do--not what the citizens may do.

The question we ought to be asking is "why does the state forbid us from driving without its permission on a road our money (taken from us at gunpoint, by the way--but that is another matter) helps pay for?" What does public mean--owned by the public or owned by the government?
 
Some states offer non-picture DL's, does Florida? If all she wants it for is to drive, give her one of those. If she wants an ID then she needs to make the concession. An ID isn't really an ID without a picture, is it?
 
An ID isn't really an ID without a picture, is it?
Click to expand...
All a picture Driver's License proves (from an ID standpoint) is that someone with access to a given birth certificate and SS card showed up at a DMV office and had his or her picture taken.

I can get a copy of my Birth certificate from the state where I was born, simply by asking for it. So could anyone else. Anyone with my birth certificate could (for a $5 fee) get a "replacement" SS card. Anyone with my birth certificate and my SS card could go to the Virginia DMV and get a driver's license with my info on it, and with their picture. So what does a photo DL prove? It proves that the person holding the card is the person who took the tests at DMV; it doesn't prove that they're who they say they are.

In some states, it's even easier. South Carolina, for instance, will accept an old family Bible as a valid form of ID, in lieu of a birth certificate. This is presumably a holdover from the days when births were not regularly recorded by city hall, but were generally written down as an annotation in the front few pages of the family's Bible.

-BjustlookatthepictureofficerP
 
That comment was said somewhat facetiously but I see your points.
I was really just thinking about the face matching the pic and not the rest of the card. Besides, without going into microchips embedded under the skin, retinal scanners or other impractical methods of instant identification, picture ID's are the best thing going right now, AFAIK. Sure, they can be faked but so can fingerprints.
 
DLs used to not have pictures. My father had one without a picture issued by the PRK before it went communist.
 
longeyes,

The protections in the BOR supersede "public safety," but, as you know, driving a vehicle on a public highway isn't one of those.
Click to expand...

Ever wonder what the license plate number on Paul Revere's horse was? ;)
 
Besides, without going into microchips embedded under the skin, retinal scanners or other impractical methods of instant identification, picture ID's are the best thing going right now, AFAIK.
Click to expand...
As of last October, all newly issued "Border Crossing Cards" (for legal day workers) at the Mexican border have included biometric fingerprint scans.

Last fall, Heathrow airport in London ran a successful test whereby certified frequent business flyers from New York on British Air and Atlantic got around customs lines by going to an iris-scan station (EyeTicket's) .

That's just a tiny taste.

It's not sci-fi, and it's closer than you think.
 
"What does supercede the public's right to safety?"

Most rights, virtually all of the time.

Lets take it the other way, though:

"What does supercede the individual's rights to (whatever)."

Why those few things deemed reasonable by the Judiciary Branch. (Granted a debatable point. But they set up the system, now didn't they.) Just like the Founders ment it to be. You know, the Legislative Branch makes the laws, the Excecutive Branch enforces them, and the Judiciary Interprets them.

Which is why inciting violence, yelling "fire," libel, slander, and child pornography are exceptions to the First Amendment. (The Amendment I'd wager most Americans hold first and foremest, and not becasue of its number.)

It also happens to be why liberal politicians and their allies cite the "public good" so often when attacking the Second Amendment's protection of whatever flavor of the month gun legislation they are trying to set forth. A good strategy on their part, may they choke on it some day with a Supreme Court ruling comes down in our favor.
 
Which is why inciting violence, yelling "fire," libel, slander, and child pornography are exceptions to the First Amendment. (The Amendment I'd wager most Americans hold first and foremest, and not becasue of its number.)
Click to expand...

OK, while those are specific examples, they do not pertain to the drivers license question at hand.

You implied that the photos protect the "public's right to safety," which covers everything from keeping the sidewalks swept to Strategic Defense Initiative. You need to be more specific.

So, I'll ask again:

A) What specific "safety" to the photos protect?
Hint: here you give a specific danger the photos protect against like "Drivers license photos keep the Killer Bees from moving farther north."

B) Why is this specific "safety" is so vital as to trump the First Amendment?
Hint: here you write something like, "Killer Bees threaten to kill us all, so this women would be dead and her veil wearing religious choice would be moot!"
 
I can get a copy of my Birth certificate from the state where I was born, simply by asking for it. So could anyone else. Anyone with my birth certificate could (for a $5 fee) get a "replacement" SS card. Anyone with my birth certificate and my SS card could go to the Virginia DMV and get a driver's license with my info on it, and with their picture.
Click to expand...
- Broken Paw


I already did that. (How'd you know?)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
fingerprinting for CCL & DL by state
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
swinokur
S
T
  • Locked
No ID needed?
Replies
7
Views
777
Orthonym
O
C
  • Locked
Email from Cobray: .R. 418: Bad for America, Bad For Gun Owners
Replies
0
Views
414
cidirkona
C
M
  • Locked
Using CCW for ID instead of your driver's license?
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
memorex
M
D
  • Locked
WISC Gov't Overtly Assisting Illegals With....
Replies
10
Views
489
Standing Wolf
S
Back
Top