Is Shooting IDPA Training or Just Another Action Pistol Game?

[Hangingrock]

Is Shooting IDPA Training or Just Another Action Pistol Game? This is the subject of an article in The Blue Press March 2012 Page Numbers 60&61.

I believe the author makes valid points that IDPA is just a game.

 

[guyfromohio]

If it's a game that requires honing a skill or even a repetition of an action, it's training in my book. At least that's what I'm going to tell my wife this spring.

 

[esheato]

It can be either...depending on your needs. If you have taken formal training and treat the matches as reinforcement, you'll never place high in the rankings but could call it training.

If you play to win, it is a game.

 

[Sam1911]

Well, this is a hotly contested topic. Mostly hotly contested by guys who don't bother to come out and shoot IDPA -- or by those few who for some reason feel a need to overstate the case from one side or the other.

One major point to start with: "TRAINING" involves being trained. You need an element of instruction going on here. Competition, without instruction, can't begin to be training. So, IDPA might be called "PRACTICE."

I've yet to run accross anyone who competes believing that IDPA IS training.

I've yet to run accross more than a handful who are serious about training who don't see the opportunities presented by IDPA type competition as valuable opportunities to practice certains skills.

I've said a few words on the subject before:

At the risk of starting a flame fest, if the level of "training" you're looking for can be summed up with the following:

1. Work from a holster
2. Shoot while moving
3. Shoot multiple targets (and shoot them while moving)
4. Shoot from concealment
5. Shoot at targets that partially concealed
6. Night shooting
7. Shooting multiple times and shooting rapid fire
8. Reloading
9. Stress Inoculation

That sounds like the very definition of IDPA competition practice. And most of those skills are covered by USPSA/IPSC, too.

Of course, posting this will bring several vehement posts screaming that "IDPA isn't tactical training" -- and they're right, to a degree.

But the list above isn't a complete education in shooting tactics, either. It is, however, a very valuable set of (elementary level) pistolcraft skills, the development of which is sadly lacking for most "square range" shooters.

If you find yourself needing these (basic) skills improved, and there is no official tactical shooting school close by, look for the nearest IDPA or USPSA match club and go practice with them. At the very least, after a season or two of practical shooting competition, you'll be ready to apply the more specailized training that a tactical school can offer, instead of spending that sizable chunk of money and time to attend a school -- just to have them have to teach you how to holster your gun without shooting your foot.

I also said this:

...to look out over hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of average Joes and Janes who; 1) have hunted for years but now think that maybe they want to get their CCW and buy a pistol, or 2) who've lived without exposure to guns and just woke up to the realities of a dangerous world, or 3) who are part of that 99% of both the police and the military that draws a gun about twice a year to qualify on a static range, or 4) is a pretty sold-out "gunny" type who owns a modest, but very clean, collection of firearms and hits the range once a month or so to try as best as he can figure out (probably on his own) how to put 50 holes somewhere in a silhouette target at 20 yds over the course of an hour and a couple of coffee breaks -- I say, to look at these folks and say, "IDPA & USPSA style shooting will get you KILLED!" is just insulting and ludicrous.

[SNIP]

... the practice in gun-handling, worn-in safety procedures, sight alignment and trigger control under stress, unconscious manipulation of the gun's controls and the reload, etc., etc., can ONLY help. And they can make a HUGE difference. And the encouragement and coaching of a group of accomplished shooters (especially those with a "practical" mindset as well as the competitive view) will propel you far further, far faster, than you can ever hope to get on your own.

Most confrontations where a gun is used involve a very few "opponents" and, if shots are fired at all, usually it's less than three or four rounds. For the vast majority of us, having a gun with us, and being generally proficient in its use, and able to make center-of-mass hits almost unconsciously under stress, will increase our "win" rate by 100x. This is where the "gun games" shine as a strong training aid. They get people out shooting -- a lot -- and shooting while moving, trying to find and use cover (sometimes), facing an endless variety of target presentations, etc. For most folks, the alternative is either plinking at bulls-eyes and tin cans or sitting on the couch watching Starsky & Hutch re-runs.

So, competition isn't training, itself. But it can be a good teaching tool, and a great practice aid.

 

[Sam1911]

Having said allllll of that, I'll give what I feel to be the heart of the most legitimate counter-argument.

In THIS THREAD I shared a few of what I see as the stages of development of an action pistol shooter. One of those stages involves figuring out the choreography and pre-shoot strategizing of the stage, as well as developing the skills to speed up and streamline movement and address shots aggressively. About those skills I said:

Unfortunately a lot of my number 4 sub-points are the kind of things that start to give some (TINY) bit of validity to the "IDPA isn't training" flak.

There are plenty of little motion and time-saving techniques you will learn to do if you want to succeed in competition that are quite unsound in a self-defense scenario (as I'm often advised by the NTI crew who make up the bulk of my shooters).

Maybe that's part of why I put those things 4th. If you're deeply into the game, you should recognize and use these techniques. If you're using IDPA matches as (simply) a great chance to practice practical shooting skills, you might not want to divert your attention into the choreography of running a known COF.

But some of those skills do translate -- like not crowding cover, keeping your gun up in your work space and oriented toward the threat, efficient and opportunistic reloads, etc.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I would say it all depends on how you treat it. I used to bring my home defense pistol and would use cover where possible and shoot at longer distances even if you were allowed to advance to the target for a shot (distance favors the marksmanship). I learned a lot and got to shoot in some odd positions and got to move and shoot. All of these things I couldn't do on a square range. I'm sure no matter what you will learn something from it. Just try not to develop muscle memory for bad habits that help you to "win the game." and you should be fine.

 

[Hangingrock]

Ok Folks I’m not being argumentative, disruptive, or trolling in regards to IDPA. I believe that the article made valid points. It’s a good read. One may agree or disagree with the author of the article in his conclusions.

 

[Sam1911]

Oh, I didn't think you were trolling. We just do see this conversation come up a lot and some things get said without the context to qualify them. I think I still have that BP magazine around. I'll try to remember to read that article.

What points did you feel he made well?

 

[WilleRupert]

IDPA is definitely training, especially if you're trying to:

"Improve your skills in comprehending and remembering an often needlessly complex set of instructions for a given course of fire."

and

"Develop your ability to tolerate several overweight middle aged men commenting and bickering over every rule, action, and detail of a given course of fire, not to mention second-guessing the SO."

 

[mgmorden]

I'm personally not really an IDPA shooter (but then again, I don't really WANT to train ), but even I can recognize that half the time the people making those claims about IDPA not being training or pulling that old "competition will get you killed" card will then happily go to the local indoor range and casually bang away at a stationary target at 10 yards for a few hundred rounds before calling it a day.

Realistically, IDPA (and all shooting sports) still get the person engaging multiple target arrays, shooting quickly, and drawing from a holster. No, shooting any type of match isn't going to make you into some grizzled old combat veteran, but it's not like blasting from the line is going to do that either. For anyone who doesn't feel like running to the front lines of whatever war we might be fighting right now, IDPA and the other shooting sports give a lot of good practice.

Think of it a little like Karate Kid. "Wax the car" and "sand the floor" aren't like fighting, but Daniel-San was much better prepared for the situation after having practiced the basic motions over and over .

 

[WilleRupert]

/\

Generally I agree. You get a lot of practice drawing and firing from concealment, which is valuable. I just wish there was less talk and more rock. People sure seem to like to bog matches down with discussion. Maybe it's just the clubs I've been to, but it seems like the IDPA could benefit as an organization with a few overarching guidelines / bylaws regarding simplicity.

 

[Hoser]

It is training for gun handling skills and shooting while moving. Just like IPSC/USPSA, ICORE, ect.

Other than that, it is just like any other gun game out there. You get out of it what you put in.

 

[AFDavis11]

It costs me more now-a-days to shoot at a static range than to compete. I think it is great to shoot in competition and to watch others as they shoot.

I think some shooting sports have a few competitive idiosyncracies that take it away from training and make it more practice. The simple fact that none of the targets shoots back much can detract a little from the experience. I only had one steel target shoot back at me. The round bounced back into my chest. At the end of the course of fire I turned around and met with total silence as the other shooters saw blood coming from my chest.

 

[waktasz]

It's not training but it is practice.

 

[Jim Watson]

I consider it a skill test.

It isn't training because you are not being instructed and critiqued.
It isn't practice (in my book) because you are not executing specific tasks repeatedly.
But back when I was MD at the local, I would tell shooters, "I didn't set this up because I thought I could do it easily, I set it up like that because that is what I need to work on."

But you get a challenge on relatively short notice and must execute it under a bit of stress... if you care how well you do.

 

[chrome_austex]

Oh, its definitely a game. However, it also does have some good crossover skills, and reinforces 'fewer' bad habits than some other pistol action sports. Its also a decent skills test.

If you're willing to give up some measure of competitiveness, you can get more 'training' in your game if you have the right mindset, but to be competitive, you probably have to treat it like more like a game.

 

[Smokin Gator]

"I'm personally not really an IDPA shooter (but then again, I don't really WANT to train ), but even I can recognize that half the time the people making those claims about IDPA not being training or pulling that old "competition will get you killed" card will then happily go to the local indoor range and casually bang away at a stationary target at 10 yards for a few hundred rounds before calling it a day."

This is very true. And what percentage of those shooters who do go somewhere and get some quality training, actually spend real time every month practicing what they learned at their training. A heck of a lot of shooters that participate in competitions are getting out 2 or 3 times a month shooting matches not including trips to the range on their own.. IDPA by itself is not training, but it certainly is good practice for gun handling skills, shooting on the move, around barriers, kneeling, weekhand, etc. Mark

 

[167]

I have always thought of competition s a test of fundamental skill more than anything else.

I don't consider it training or practice, or a game, but a test of my ability to solve a shooting problem that I had no part in creating.

 

[iblong]

It Is a game and is not trainning persay,but to me it is a practice in that it
helps keep your gun handling skills fresh,shooting from cover,shooting while moving in or out,side ways,avoiding shooting the good guys ect. and a lot more fun than shooting at static targets.Just my 2 cents.

 

[mavracer]

It's not training but it is practice.

I agree. It's a pretty good way to practice important gun handeling skills.

 

[Hk Dan]

IDPA or USPSAare NOT training. Noone is going to correct a bad technique or show you how to fix a problem you're having. It is at best 'good practice'. I love IDPA and I shoot it a lot. The guys who think it's training have not actually taken training (I'm guessing) and don't know the benefit they'd get from a competent instructor.

Not training. I am trained, trust me, IDPA/USPSA ain't it.

 

[jmorris]

Shooting IDPA is really only training for playing IDPA. There are good things a shooter develops in all games though.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I've had my fair share and more of formal classes and realistic training.


I use IDPA to keep gun handling skills current on a clock, in a scenario I didn't design. But I do a lot of things that earn me procedurals. I just show up knowing ahead of time I'm going to place somewhere in the bottom third by doing things my way.

And I'm completely OK with that.


I'll often measure and evaluate things on my own that the score doesn't reflect. Like, did I get off the line of force when I drew? If I was out in the open, did I move during my reload? If I could move somewhere not on the course design to drastically change the dynamics of the encounter in my favor, which way would it be? Even if I can't move there because of the 180 rule, I'll mentally envision which is the best angle to take so I can stack multiple threats. Am I looking beyond the threats to take advantage of any backstops, and make sure they're clear of non-threats? Did I do a 360 check when I was finished, before I unload and show clear?


Fortunately I have a lot of friends here in our local league, and they're as much of a reason to show up as the chance to exercise gun handling skills. And they let me do it my way, for the most part. I just earn procedurals when I chose to deviate from the "IDPA way".

 

[Dr.Rob]

It's a little of both I think.

Mostly (unless your fellow competitors and SO's offer tips) you are practicing your gunhandling and shooting skills, and they will get better the more you shoot. Adding in the element of the 'unknown' tests your perception and ability to problem solve.

However if you're doing something 'wrong' you're training your muscles to keep doing it.

So no, it's not a shooting classroom with a learned instructor, but it's not just target shooting either.

 

[Hk Dan]

You have a good point Rob. It's CERTAINLY better than plinking away at soup cans or trying to shoot tiny lil groups on a Shoot N See target. 1000% improvement there, but it's certainly NOT a Rob Pincus or Mas Ayoob class either! <g>