Is the .357 Sig really that good?

[The Dutchman]

I have been giving careful consideration to buying a Sig P229 however I don't know which caliber. I have been reading about the secret service and even posted a thread inquiring about their weapons. The secret service and numerous law enforcement agencies have the P229 in .357 sig. My question is what does the .357 sig really offer that is soooo savy to these agencies?

 

[SnakeEater]

what does the .357 sig really offer that is soooo savy to these agencies?

I can't speak for them but I'll give you my reasons for making .357 sig my primary caliber of choice.

1. Excellent barrier penetration, such as car doors and windshields.
2. Same capacity as .40 which is usually not far behind the 9mm and much more than the .45
3. This round is very flat shooting which extends it's "effective" range.
4. I like the "boom" it makes.
5. My Glock 33 is the same size as the G26; so I figure why not?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

sorry double posted... see below.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Of the reasons Snake Eater lists, I would say the answer that makes the most sense is "why not".

I think its fine, but I don't think any of its perceived benefits amount to a hill of beans for the average CCW. Some of the benefits (eg improved barrier penetration) also are a drawback (ie, overpenetration).

How often does a CCW holder have to shoot through a car door or make a long shot?

I looked at the caliber long and hard about 1.5 yrs ago, and finally settled on a Glock 19 in 9mm. There are several 9mm loads out there that come close to 357 sig.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Of the reasons Snake eyes lists...

You got it right the first time, Lone Gunman

"Snake Eyes" spells .357: "P-Y-T-H-O-N"

 

[TheDutchman]

No

 

[jc2]

A good answer to your question (shamelessly plagarized from Gary Roberts off TF):

What does the .357 Sig offer which is not already available? Are we missing something?

We have not observed any better performance with the .357 Sig than with the better 9mm loads; the better .40 S&W loads appear to offer superior performance compared with the .357 Sig. Buford Boone at the FBI Academy and I have compared our respective test data on the .357 Sig--our results are nearly identical. The best .357 Sig load appears to be the 125gr Gold Dot JHP. In both the FBI testing and our assessment, it offers virtually IDENTICAL performance as the 9 mm 124 gr +P Speer Gold Dot JHP in both bare gelatin and through the various intermediate barriers. Likewise, the 9mm 147 gr Winchester Ranger Talon JHP offers similar terminal performance. The best that can be said of the .357 Sig is that it equals the 9mm in terminal performance, although at the price of less ammunition capacity along with greater recoil, muzzle flash, and wear on the weapon. Both the .40 S&W and .45 ACP make larger holes in the target and therefore have the potential to more rapidly incapacitate an aggressive adversary in a lethal force encounter. In addition, the greater mass of the .40 S&W and .45 ACP bullets offer an improved chance of defeating an intervening obstacle while still having enough penetration to reach the vital organs of an armed opponent. I fully agree with Mr. Boone when he writes that the .357 Sig is, “Not a great or lousy cartridge, just another choice.”

 

[scubie02]

I had a sig in 357 sig and liked it. It was more accurate than the 40 I had at the same time, but that may well have just been a fluke since thats obviously a small sample and could have just been individual guns. In theory it should be excellent as far as an autoloader goes, since it is supposed to be nearly identical to a 357 mag, and the 357 mag usually gets one of the highest if not the highest score in those one shot kill tests/surveys--often better than 45 acp's etc. That having been said, at this point I have only 45's and 9mm's left in my autoloaders (except for on 32 pocket gun). Ammo is alot cheaper, and as others have said the right +p 9 mm's are supposed to be pretty close, and my 45's have always seemed good enough. Hell, there are times I carry a 38 special. And ammo's alot easier to find where I live.

That having been said, I do like the 357 sig, and things like ammo price and availability would improve if more people bought them...

 

[denfoote]

I guess it's OK!!!

The round was designed to duplicate the .357mag ballistics.
Now, this may be all well and good for LEO agencies who want to get the most bang for our buck, but us "civies" generally don't have a bean counter telling us what to carry on our hips (except for those of us who are married )!! That said, for my money, and it's tight these days, the $250 Taurus .357MAG snub beats the $500-600 Glock or Sig all to heck!!

 

[jc2]

That "designed to duplicate the .357mag [sic] ballistics" was more marketing ploy that fact--let's take a 9mm, call it a 357 and see how it sells.

 

[Gordy Wesen]

I see Double Tap's .357 Sig 125gr Gold Dot JHP runs at @ 1450fps with 14.5" in gelatin and expands to .66".
They've pushed the .357 Mag and the 125gr. Gold Dot JHP to 1600fps with 12.75" in gelatin and expansion to .69".

 

[Boats]

Too bad for the shameless marketing effort that the premier .357 Mag loadings are in the 158 and above loadings these days.

Not long ago, we took a look at the three current 180-grain .357 Magnum loads in these pages, including the Partition Gold JHP from Winchester. Both the Remington JHP and Winchester JHP performed admirably in ballistic gelatin. Winchester made it perfectly clear that handloaders can hope to do no better. That load penetrated 17 inches of calibrated gelatin, expanding to .692 inches while retaining 96 percent of it's starting weight, weighing 173.1 grains.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/partition_0611/

"The .357 Magnum in an autoloader" is bunk with a capital B. The ammo flexibility is totally lacking.

It also looks like Double Tap needs to get with it loading for revolvers. Here are Buffalo Bore's offerings in .357 Magnum:

180 gr. LFN-GC (1400 fps MV 783 ft. lbs. ME)

170 gr. JHC (1400 fps MV 740 ft. lbs. ME)

158 gr. JHP (1475 fps MV 763 ft. lbs. ME)

125 gr. JHP (1700 fps MV 802 ft lbs ME)

Lest anyone think those numbers are cherry picked from a hunting length test barrel , they even scream out of a 4" revolver:

180 gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
170gr JHC = 1411 fps
158gr. Gold Dot = 1485 fps
125gr. Gold Dot = 1603 fps

I use the 158s for SD in my nightstand Ruger.

 

[Bullet]

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000581;p=1

 

[blackpanther]

.357 sig and .357 mag

People you better start looking at the data instead of all the gel test.Look at the ballistics at 25,50,75 and 100 yards.I guess you could ask the bad ass to not shoot till you got to 20 feet from him.The .357 mag 124gr at 100 yards is still really wicked.

Ed