Is the .45 GAP (.45 Glock Automatic Pistol) a dieing or NEAR DEATH caliber?

[Redneck with a 40]

What's it offer over the 45 ACP? Slightly smaller frame? Big deal. There are plenty of compact 1911's that are very comfortable in my hand. It might hold a couple more rounds, again, big deal. I don't think it'll be around in a couple of years.

It certainly has NOTHING over the 40 S&W.

 

[Grayrider]

I thought as well that its ideal niche might be in compact CCW guns. It does allow for a slightly shorter grip (front to back), and that bothers some people in a 45 ACP. Not me, but I have run into quite a few shooters over the years that it does. It would also seem to make being a rare caliber less important since most shooters shoot their tiny guns less than their full sized pistols. They can be unpleasant to run. Something like the Kahr P45 or PM 45 in GAP would be just a bit smaller. Still, the ACP models are a comfy size and that does give a shooter more options for ammo.

I vote dead or dieing, with perhaps a slightly better future than 41AE given brass may be more available for reloading and no special dies are needed. Now the 41AE was a much better round, and I would sure have rather seen that one survive. Please lets all have a moment of silence for that one, at least those of us who remember it with a measure of fondness.....







John

 

[notorious]

The 41AE didn't have a fighting chance without a big firearm manufacturer to back its play. The GAP has the Glock behemoth behind it to guarantee a long life even if other companies don't take up arms to offer pistols in the caliber.

40SW got lucky and had a niche and now every major company makes one or more guns to shoot the round. I think Smith actually sells the least amount of guns chambered for its own round.

 

[atblis]

Wasn't the XD offered in 45 GAP?

 

[Drail]

The .45 GAP is just more marketing from the Master of Marketing, Gaston. Even if you don't like his design work, you have to admit he is a marketing genius. Sort of like Harley Davidson.

 

[earl_simmons]

It was clearly a failure, which GLOCK appears to have recognized with the SF models. To make a high-capacity .45 in a reasonably-sized frame, GLOCK shrunk the cartridge. Other companies successfully shrunk their grips.

 

[notorious]

Wasn't the XD offered in 45 GAP?

The fact that you have to ask shows that it is not quite as popular as Herr Gaston wanted it....

 

[mgregg85]

The answer to a question that no one asked. I don't know if its dying but I wouldn't risk buying one right now when it's future is so uncertain. The .45 ACP does everything the GAP can do, its just a bit longer, and the .45 ACP will still be around in 50 years.

 

[model of 1905]

So sad...

45GAP
357Sig
10mm
475 Wiley
41AE

and a whole host of other well-meaning calibers that never caught on the way it was intended to.

The .357 sig may well replace the 40 cal in time, when real world results come in that show the superioity of .357 sig over the 40 and in some cases even the .45 ACP (penetrating power). Right now the reason it is not as popular is the fact there are so many 40 cal guns in the hands of the public and the perceived notion that 357 sig ammmo is so much more expensive (which its not compared to 40 or 45 ACP). Lets see where 357 Sig is in 10 years. Believe me it will be more popular than it is now.

 

[eng23ine]

The 357 Sig is being used by the US Secret Service, US Air Marshals, VA State Police, NC Highway Patrol, Texas DPS, OK Highway Patrol, NM State Police, and Chicago transit authority

New York, South Carolina and Pennsylvania State Police all use 45 GAP...dunno who else, but I wouldn't go as far as saying its dead quite yet.

Wasn't the XD offered in 45 GAP?

Yes, I had one until it got traded for another 1911...yesterday.

 

[notorious]

New York, South Carolina and Pennsylvania State Police all use 45 GAP...dunno who else, but I wouldn't go as far as saying its dead quite yet.

LAPD and LASO issue 9mm Berettas with LAPD giving the option to go with a G21 in 45ACP. Most of our guys have G21 in 45ACP as well even though the standard is a G17. My buddies who work in departments who have a choice overwhelmingly go with the G21. I think there's 3 guys who carry the 357Sig to everyone else and that's no that many. Maybe it's a west coast thing?

 

[Bozo]

South Carolina State Troopers did adopt the .45 Gap a couple of years ago for whatever reason some brilliant person came up with. Now however there is rumors that it is being replaced with a more conventional cartridge.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

I will now donate a few more cents.

My local PD (Independence) uses .357 Sig. A few other departments do. .357 Sig is being seen as the caliber that wealthy departments use (though my town isn't wealthy, it has a little money. Enough to support the cartridge). KCPD, KCKPD, Lee's Summit, MO and Overland Park, KS all use a .40 S&W (though OP is looking at .357 Sig). Raytown, MO uses 9mm Glock 19s. These are the Departments I know.

Nobody locally uses a .45 regularly. Only one department (from the poorest suburb), uses 9mm. Everyone else uses .40 or .357 Sig.

Now, there are advantages that .40 and .357 Sig have. We can argue quite abit about which is the better cartridge, ballistically, price wise, practically. But, we can't really have any of the same arguments when talking about .45 GAP.

.40 S&W came in to fit a role between 9mm and .45 that was seriously lacking. It was obviously a wonderful "just right" sort of thing. Ballistically, it's "real world" results have been stellar by all accounts.

.357 Sig is basically the .40 S&W with better penetration in terms of solving the 9mm vs. .45 argument. Where it really shines is that it's ballistics are more like a .357 Magnum than a .40 S&W. (And .357 Magnum remains the best manstopper statistically)

With a hollow point bullet, it makes one hell of a hole, and gets great penetration (from the results that have been observed so far).

.45 GAP: It was designed, in theory because the .45 was too big to comfortably be held in a double stack mag. Not because there was a ballistic hole to fill (ala .40). Not because there was a true platform hole to fill (.357 Sig being the auto version of .357 Magnum finally in an appropriate cartridge case unlike 9x23 and .38 Super). But because some people had a hard time holding the few high cap .45s that are out there.

I know the horse is so broken and bloody might not seem much point, but Glock screwed up.

 

[legion3]

the perceived notion that 357 sig ammmo is so much more expensive (which its not compared to 40 or 45 ACP).

I was bored...357 Sig ammo is generally more expensive across the board and there are less choices listed, however on SD ammo the cost is about the same but not on practice ammo.

Does WWB put out a 357 Sig?

9mm of course smoked all these rounds in cost.


From Ammuntion to go: On FMJ

50rds - 357 Sig Speer Lawman 125gr. FMJ Ammo $17.49
50rds - 357 Sig Fiocchi 124gr FMJ Ammo $19.95
50rds - 357 SIG S&B FMJ Ammo $21.95

50rds - 40 S&W Aguila FMJ Ammo $15.49
50rds - 40 S&W Federal American Eagle 155gr. FMJ Ammo $15.95
50rds - 40 S&W Federal American Eagle 165gr. FMJ Ammo $15.95
50rds - 40 S&W Federal American Eagle 180gr. FMJ Ammo $15.95
50rds - 40 S&W Fiocchi 180gr. FMJ Ammo $15.95

50rds - 45 ACP Aguila 230gr. FMJ Ammo $16.89
50rds - 45 ACP Speer Lawman 185gr. TMJ Ammo $16.95
50rds - 45 ACP Fiocchi 230gr. FMJ Ammo $18.49
50rds - 45 ACP Federal American Eagle 230gr. FMJ Ammo $17.95

ON SD HP:

50rds - 357 Sig Remington UMC 125gr. Hollow Point Ammo $27.95
20rds - 357 Sig Hornady 124gr. XTP Hollow Point Ammo $14.95
20rds - 357 Sig Corbon DPX 125gr. HP Ammo $29.95

50rds - 40 S&W Speer LE Gold Dot 155gr. HP Ammo $25.95
50rds - 40 S&W Federal LE Tactical Bonded 155gr. HP Ammo $26.95
20rds - 40 S&W Corbon DPX 140gr. HP Ammo $30.95

50rds - 45 ACP Federal LE Tactical Hydra-Shok 185gr. +P HP Ammo $26.95
50rds - 45 ACP Speer LE Gold Dot 185gr. HP Ammo $28.95
20rds - 45 ACP Corbon DPX 160gr. HP Ammo $27.95

 

[.41Dave]

.45 GAP is dying. The only reason to buy one is to put it up unfired with a few boxes of ammo in the hopes that in 30 or 40 years it might be a rare collector's piece that will fetch big bucks.

 

[wally]

They still produce 44/40, 38/40 ammo I believe.

Yeah but these are having a resurgence in the cowboy action shooting market.

Wasn't the XD offered in 45 GAP?

Yes, and a side by side A/B comparison of the XD GAP vs. XD ACP immediately shows the fallacy of the concept!

It'll live on in Police use as long as subsidizing it has value to Gaston.

Not even very original, look up the some what obscure European .45HP in limited use in countries where "military calibers" are not allowed for civilians. He pretty much copied it for his GAP round.

Had to really hurt his Ego to well all those Glock pistols marked .40 S&W and .357 SIG

--wally.

 

[notorious]

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[notorious]

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[notorious]

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[notorious]

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[notorious]

Actually, Gaston marks his G22, G27, and G35 as the 40SW, not 40S&W so as to not give them the satisfaction of having that ampersand. I have one of the first G23s made and that's the marking on the barrel. I recall reading some magazine articles about that in 1991-1992 when the 40S&W round came out and Glock chambered their gun for it right after S&W introduced the 4006.

 

[kmbrman]

45 Gap ?

In reading an older post from notorious, the only caliber recently marketed that I think will stick around is 357 Sig. Here in Texas several LEO groups like our Highway Patrol Dept. has chosen the 357 Sig. The Sig name probably helps also. And they are using Sig. autos as their weapon of choice.

 

[outerlimit]

Some local LEO use it here too. I agree and not to get too off topic here, but I think the 147gr. 357SIG load by Double Tap really seems like a nice and effective loading. Couple that with the ability to change back and forth between .40S&W and I say it's not going anywhere.

 

[GregGry]

What I think glock should do inorder to same their name on a cartridge is this:

Create a .50 Glock round and offer a sub compact, compact, and fullsize pistol chambered for it. There are way to many different .45 cartridges, and when you don't establish yours is somehow better nobody will buy it. Switch to a bigger round that few guns are chambered for (especially with the dreaded half inch barrel aka max diamater) and you will sell a ton.

 

[Pulse]

Create a .50 Glock round and offer a sub compact, compact, and fullsize pistol chambered for it.

you mean like the .50GI ?

not a Glock round, but the 21 is one of the few firearms chambered for it.
and yes, it sucks just as mutch as the .45GAP.