Is the 870 worth the cost over a pardner pump?

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How? Please be specific in your argument and use details.

The Remington 870 is the Chevy 350 of shotguns. The Pardner pump
is the Tata of china :D

Ok I have shot both of these guns and you can notice the quality right
away. The Patner Pump might be ok for HD but, if you shoot a lot I would
want something that will last.
 
Ok I have shot both of these guns and you can notice the quality right
away. The Patner Pump might be ok for HD but, if you shoot a lot I would
want something that will last.

People always make statements like these but never explain why and back it up with details. Explain what you mean or your statement means nothing.

I can give you details on why the Pardner Pump is a better made shotgun than the 870 Express. The Stock on the Pardner Protector is made of very thick polymer. The polymer stock on the Express is very thin and has a cheap hollow sound to it. The recoil pad on the Protector is nicer also. I have plenty more reasons why. The Pardner Protector is built for heavy use, on the other hand, the Express is built on a budget for company profits and it shows it.

It's kind of like every time you go to the grocery store to buy a bag of chips, the price stays the same but the potions keep getting smaller.


GC
 
I haven't shot the "Pardner pump", don't own one and I never will. It has a little to do with my politics, but more to do with the fact that I don't need one.

I own a remington 870 express. Evidently I got the last good one and I plan on it being the last pump I ever buy, unless I want to have a backup 870 express for a pinch or parts (two is one, one is none.)

It has never stopped shooting despite my attempts to get it to do so, including pumping it very slowly.

Perhaps Remington's problems get magnified because they sell so many of the darned things. Pushing 10 million overall and climbing....

Overall, the 870 and Mossberg 500 are so proven over time that I would limit my selection to one of them. Maybe in 20 years I might start thinking about a "Pardner pump", but by then I might be issued a pulse rifle for the war with China.

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Edit: I love Howaido. I crack him up.
 
I have trouble seeing myself waxing nostalgic about any shotgun. I'm not that into shotguns but I just have to get one because they are so darned useful. The shotgun I get will be purely for functions sake and not form.
 
Have you considered a Charles Daly pump shotgun? They're made in Turkey, are very inexpensive and IMHO very well made for the price. Definitely nicer than my Mossberg 500. Most or all of them have chrome-lined bores, the receivers are thick aluminum, trigger pull is really good for a shotgun, I could go on and on. I think you'd find one in the same price range as the Pardner.
 
You could find an older Wingmaster but, contrary to what others say,
They don't come cheap.

The prices for the gun in average condition, here in Palm Beach county Florida, vary from $150 to $300. The Wingmaster first appeared in 1951 and over 8 million have been manufactured and sold worldwide. My Wingmaster is 90% and was manufactured in 1973 and cost me $100 at a flea market last year. Since we got the Obamanation the prices have risen.
I would buy the weapon that has a proven past record, in this case, the Remington. I think of the hidden production problems from China; lead paint, contaminated dry wall, dog foods contaminated with poisons and the list goes on and on. I don't trust their quality control or I should say their lack of quality control...
 
I don't trust their quality control or I should say their lack of quality control...

Not having any real experience with the Pardner Pump you wouldn't know. Remington group pays to have them imported knowing they are made by the 870 design. Remington H&R thinks they are high quality because they are backed by their excellent Warranty. Since they have been introduce about 5 years ago they have a much lower return rate than the 870. The forums show it. You hardly ever see anyone having a problem with a Pardner Pump or HAWK 982. Not so with the 870.

Thread that is up on the broad right now you can read for your enjoyment: Has the Remington 870 Reputation for reliability been ruined in this decade???

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=461809

It's really sad when HAWK Ind in China can make a better more reliable 870 shotgun than Remington.

GC
 
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It's not about making a better or more reliable shotgun at the bottom end of the scale. It's about making money. You can cut corners and do it in the U.S., or you can use ultra cheap foreign Far East labor.
 
It's not about making a better or more reliable shotgun at the bottom end of the scale. It's about making money. You can cut corners and do it in the U.S., or you can use ultra cheap foreign Far East labor.

Remington group is doing both.


GC
 
I've got several examples of the 870 Exp, an ooolllld Wingmaster and the Pardner HD. Get what you want. Most of the Exp models can be made to shoot with little fuss. IF and I mean IF you could find a good used WM for around $200, go for it. If you're looking at new, the Pardner is a better SG than the Exp IMHO, for all the reasons that MAX100 cited. That being said, I wouldn't rule out a used Exp either if the price was right.

One of the most common problems with the newer Exp models seems to be rough chambers. Quite often though, this is nothing more than "overspray" of the rough finish material finding its way into the chamber. I have one Exp that had this. Some polishing with fine steel wool cured the problem.
 
IF and I mean IF you could find a good used WM for around $200, go for it.

They exist actually, I just got a really nice used WM for 149, but that was the only one I've ever seen that cheap.
 
I have, at times cleaned (detail) some Express shotguns and they had rough tool marks and sharp edges inside the receiver.

I, earlier today , ran my fingers in side the receiver of my 12 and 20 pardner pumps and they were butter smooth.

The guns I cleaned have had some rounds through them as well as my Pardners and I will contend that the machining of the Pardners is first rate.

A good gun is a good gun and opinions based on bias are worth squat!

I used to dismiss guns in the past, case in point, a Finnish m39 ( based on the Mosin Nagant action) as being "Russian junk" until I shot one against a Remington 700 BDL in 25-06.

The m39 shot rings around the Remington!

I learned then that it's best to keep an open mind and to shelve my bias until I thoroughly investigate whatever and THEN make an opinion.

Clearly brand loyalty and bias have muddied the waters here regarding what simply is a field grade shotgun.

I don't care what a person chooses for a shotgun and I encourage those who are looking for a gun to suit their needs to check them before they plunk down their hard earned cash.:D
 
I have never shot the partner shotgun. I have owned my 870 express for almost nineteen years. It has twenty thousand plus rounds through it and has never let me down. It is one of the few guns that I own that I would bet my life on. It is now in semi retirement and serves as a back up for my beretta on dove and quail trips. I also lend it to new hunters as I know it will always fire and is a simple gun to shoot well. It has survived being run over by the truck severe dust and sand, lack of cleaning for weeks of use as well as new shooter abuse. This thing is tough! I have a standard bet in my hunting group that tells of my confidence. You break it and you can have it.
 
I don't mind buying something made overseas what I do mind is copied designs made cheaper because the pay no heed to safety or enviromental conserns

They're made cheaper because of lower wages, less regulation, and a lower corporate tax rate. Furthermore, environmental problems in China are strongly related to their socialist system. But the best way to rectify this is to encourage the Chinese to move away from socialism, and toward capitalism. Encouraging capitalism encourages proper stewardship of property, as does improving the economy. By participating in capitalistic transactions with China you will encourage further capitalism, and improve their economy, which will lead to improving environmental conditions over there.

and are made by slave labor

Those people aren't slaves. They work there, voluntarily, because it improves their lives. Their alternative is to be poorer. Those jobs may be crappy by our standards, but they are an improvement by their standards. As China's economy improves, so will their standard of living.

with the profits supporting the chinese military.

Buying American supports the American military. Does China's military kill more innocent people than ours?

I'm no tree hugger but I also don't believe in pouring poisonous waste in the creek out back. I have worked with people that have set up factories in china within six months most new machines will have the safety guards left off and the safety interlocks bypassed Some one gets hurt it's no big deal they keep them so poor there are 14 more standing outside waiting to work for a dime an hour.
My morals are worth more than saving a few dollars

To those workers, the risk of injury is more acceptable than the risk of starvation.

Doing a search of most gun forums will make two things clear:
The majority of respondents who have handled the Pardner claim is is a good quality machine, and a very good value.
The majority of those respondents who not would buy one make their choice based on the fact that it is made in China, and/or because they can spend a bit more to get something of even higher quality.

Buying a Pardner gets you a quality firearm at a good price, and helps to improve the lives of poor Chinese workers. Part of the reason China's economy has been growing so much in recent years is because its government has eased up or looked the other way as businesses acted in capitalistic ways. You beat socialism by engaging it with capitalism, not by isolating it from capitalism.
 
Politics aside, I own a Mossberg and several Remingtons. Our local sports store had a sale on these a couple of years ago for right at $150 each drive out price. I bought one, tore it down, compared it to my others, and I find it to be of externally better quality. I can't comment on the quality of the steel. Zero issues after hundreds of rounds and it just plain feels better in my hands. I bought several more for HD shotguns. In my opinion, they are the best value in pump shotguns out there.

Search the net, there are many stories of these shotguns being put through serious abuse with thousands of round without a hiccup.

Getting back to the politics, you can not win that arguement and it would be better for us to buy American made.
 
Walter, it's not my intention to slander any members of our armed forces. I've got several vets in my family, including a brother who just did two tours in Iraq. I'd be glad to elucidate my previous statement, either over email or IM. Anyone interested in hearing it may PM me, but I think we've strayed a bit too far from the OP's question, and I apologize for my part in that.
 
Buying American supports the American military. Does China's military kill more innocent people than ours?

I'd be glad to elucidate my previous statement

No need to elucidate, your statement clearly indicates your America is bad perspective. BTW, the answer to your question is YES with intent to do so.

John
 
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