Is the A1-style AR-15 upper making a comeback?

[MatthewVanitas]

Being that the A3 upper has now become the solid favorite among AR aficionados, and IIRC is now permitted in serveral iron-sight competitions when the carrying handle is attached, what does this bode for the future of the A1 and A2 upper?

Being that the main thing the A1 upper sacrifices to the A2 is ease of sight adjustability, and the A3 has all that and better, is it possible that those seeking an irons-only AR will opt for the A1 upper?

I note that Mr Sully's company is producing modern police/competition AR carbines with A1 sights, on the belief that the A2 sights are more susceptible to damage or slippage. I believe Mr Sully has even produced detachable A1 carrying handles, which is quite cool.

For my part, any day now my A1-upper'ed Dissipator should be arriving. I thought long and hard, decided that I wasn't likely to use optics on this upper, and thought that it seemed a little silly to have A2 sights on a plinking/contigency rifle, when the A1 was actually a few bucks cheaper and looks far more streamlined.

There's also the increase in retro-appeal with the A1. Lots of folks on www.ar15.com have great replica builds of famous ARs of the past. If you're going with the "obsolete" fixed carrying handle anyway, why not step a little further back and go A1?

Any other A1 fans out there, or am I just odd?

-MV (who almost bought the A1 Commando Bushy at Wade's in Seattle last week, $645, dangit...)

 

[rfurtkamp]

I'm waiting to build a proper A1 for the pile of historical faux guns here - have an extra PVS-2 that's dying for a proper home to put it on. ;0

 

[kahr404life]

I have a Bushy with A1 upper and a A2 style barrel. The A1 sight seems more durable (less parts to break) than the A2 style. I like it .

 

[DMK]

The A1 receiver is lighter and simpler. IMO, it's even better with an XS sight systems same plane arperture. Zero the weapon for 200 meters and just leave it alone, you are +/- 2" all the way out to there. You have a ghost ring for up close snap shots, flip to the peep for precision.

Now if companies would only start making A1 profile 20" barrels in 1/9 or 1/7 twist...

 

[Dienekes]

I had the A1 in the service; had a CAR-15 A1 for a few years afterwards. Am thinking of building up another CAR type carbine now. If I do I will probably go with the A1 rear sights again (Brownell's lists a DPMS A1 upper). I well remember falling down a set of slick, mossy stone steps with the slung CAR; put a few nicks in the finish and some hurt on me; but the sights did just fine.

I have very little interest in competing with the .223 as I like my .30 calibers. And even with them I usually run with a 300 yard battle zero for practical shooting.

In truth there is not much need for sight adjusting once you have a proper zero on the rifle and know your holdovers and hold unders.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

(Brownell's lists a DPMS A1 upper)

Bushmaster also lists an A1 upper receiver, and is willing to install the barrel of your choice on it (M4-profile Dissy in my case), and Fulton Armory stocks a "slick side" upper without deflector or forward assist. To get the kind with assist but no deflector, you probably have to go to the Equipment Exchange on www.ar15.com

The ARFers have been discussing getting new production early M16-style lowers, but ASA whiffed that one, so still no supplier. A few industrious souls have ground off the magwell fence on modern lowers to look more authentic, but that's far beyond my drive for historical accuracy. If you're curious, there's an outstanding "Retro AR" thread ongoing on ARF, with member "uxb" having some great gear indeed.

Attached pic from uxb's collection.

 

[Onmilo]

Dang, and I thought this thread was going to suggest a 6.5 pound, 20 inch barrelled rifle with the better, longer, stronger, buttstock, the better flash suppressor, and the better, more adjustable rear sight of the A2 version!

Seems Ordinance went and did it again, taking a decent, light weight, user friendly weapon and turning it into something that weighs nearly as much as a fully loaded five ton truck.

 

[BigG]

I have always preferred the A1 style upper and have found no need to readjust the sights for my types of shooting. The A2 is preferred for target shooters but I don't think it's as durable or foolproof as the original style. YMMV

 

[.45&TKD]

A1 rear sight here.

 

[762x51]

You are correct, they are gaining popularity. Superior Arms even makes an A1 carry handle now:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=299660

 

[Old Dog]

I've always preferred it. Just noticed BigG was reading my mind and made my post before I did ... 'Course, the A1 was what I was always issued being as the Navy kept 'em and I didn't get to use the M-4 until my '03 deployment ...

IMO, it's even better with an XS sight systems same plane arperture. Zero the weapon for 200 meters and just leave it alone, you are +/- 2" all the way out to there. You have a ghost ring for up close snap shots, flip to the peep for precision.

Gotta try this, this might be my solution for my worsening geezer eyes ... been neglecting the AR for a while ...

 

[brandyspaw]

I didn't think they were very popular based on my recent experience
of trying to sell an old SP Colt CAR-15. A lot of people who inquired about
it wondered why it didn't have A2 sights. When I explained thats the way
the old guns came these people (mostly young kids) told me they liked
the carry handle but didn't think they could hit anything with "those" sights.
Go figure-its a 16 inch carbine, not a long barreled match gun!

 

[BigG]

A lot of people who inquired about it wondered why it didn't have A2 sights. When I explained thats the way the old guns came these people (mostly young kids) told me they liked the carry handle but didn't think they could hit anything with "those" sights.

Heh. That sort of thinking really illustrates a lack of knowledge.

If you have a properly sighted in AR15 you can hit anything you can see by dead aim up to 350 yards. That's enough for me.

 

[P0832177]

Hey look what is being made available http://www.slr15.com/. For CQB and home defense who needs an A2 rear? A1 provides less things to break! It just plain makes sense!

 

[Oleg Volk]

I definitely prefer A1. A2, for me, is a confusing set-up which is prone to accidental windage change.

My next rifle will be a 16" light barrel "Commander" flattop with backup A1 sight and full-length sight radius. 20" HBAR is just too much weight for me, and I actually shoot carbines more accurately. Fixed short stock works better for prone and isn't as fragile as the adjustable version. The loss of bayonet capability doesn't seem so important...

 

[Nicky Santoro]

Is the A1-style AR-15 upper making a comeback?

I carried an M16A1 in '69-"70. In basic I was taught to hold low or high depending upon the range. The sights were no problem. I've often thought of the A2 sights as a solution in search of a problem.

 

[BigG]

I've often thought of the A2 sights as a solution in search of a problem.

Yeah. The A2 came about because the Marines (IIRC) wanted a TARGET rifle. There wasn't a dang thing wrong with the A1 setup (imho) but you know how people are, they can't leave well enough alone. It's easier to dial up the different ranges if you are firing at Camp Perry, etc., I guess, but for a rugged little weapon, the A1 is the one.

There is a saying that the US builds a target rifle for their troops. Some of you know it. But, I think it's an accurate observation.

The same thing could be said about the removable carry handle, or worse, imho the BARE flat top. You still gotta put ultra high scope rings because of the straight line design of the gun, then you gotta add back up sights, etc. etc. Not to mention something else to lose... yada yada ...

Once a guy gets the doo dad virus out of his system, he realizes Stoner had it pretty right to begin with.

 

[Gordon]

Don't forget the A-1 stock! It got the correct LOP for most big guys doing CQB! Lighter too along with that 20" pencil barrel that is light and gets the velocity up so the bullet blows real good Heck the ORINGINAL (RARE) 1-12" twist with 55 grain ball works pretty good too!
Yep the 200 yard battle sight zero isn't gonna be touched in the field anyway. Louis Awerbuck (and others) don't like people pounding on the forward assist any way. Stoner got it right in the beggining. I kind like a real M-4 too though!

 

[BigG]

Shhh - don't tell anyone, but the SP1 is the exact gun you are describing. I buy them for reasonable prices since they are old fashioned and not high speed. The best bang for the buck in the AR15 series.

Also would like the M4 but have had 2 carbines already and just stick with the plain jane SP1. I like the longer sight radius of the 20" er.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

UPS dropped by last evening...

Here's my solution for the time being. And it does have the 20" sight radius, and 1/9 twist M4-profile barrel...

 

[Detritus]

Don't forget the A-1 stock!

anyone know if using an A2 upper buttstock screw with an A1 stock will cause the screw to intrude into the actual "buffer space" inside the receiver extension?? A1= 9/16" A2=1-1/8" so an A2 is twice as long, but then again there's a bit of meat at the back of the receiver extension as well, so that got me wondering..... esp since i have yet to catch "the guy who knows" at the vendor i plan to get my stock set from to find out if THEY have teh short screw.

i know i'll probably just wind up ordering the A1 screw from brownells but dang it, it's just hard to swallow paying more for shipping($4) than for the part($3.20).

 

[Sawdust]

Here's my solution for the time being. And it does have the 20" sight radius, and 1/9 twist M4-profile barrel...

Details, please (maker, model, vendor).

I like the look of that, and am starting to formulate my own build-up from a stripped lower.

Thanks,

Sawdust

 

[uxb]

Yes,



Too bad true A1 lowers are so hard to find.

I just got a Colt 16" lightweight barrel cut down to 11.5" and had the gas port opened from 0.080" to 0.085" by ADCO and am waiting on my XM177 moderator and grenade ring from Total Silence, Inc.

It will go on an XM177E2 Son Tay Raider clone when all parts arrive. I will have to have a scope mount fabricated, but I did manage to find an original Singlepoint Sight, Serial Number A002xxx for the reproduction (shown next to an OEG for size comparison):



MatthewVanitas, thanks for the compliment.

Oh, and Detritus, the A2 screw will interfere with buffer operation. You have to use an A1 screw. I have a used one. Email me with an address and I'll send it out to you.

uxb

 

[MatthewVanitas]

@uxb: glad to see you here! Thanks for sharing more pics out of your collection, and filling us all with deep feelings of inadequacy... Seriously, nice pieces of gear you have there.

@Sawdust: the upper is stock Bushmaster. I just called them up and said "slap a M4 Dissipator barrel on an A1 upper, thread it, toss in the assemblies, and mail it out to me." OTD cost was $524.

Only one beef: I asked them to thread but not install an FS, but they tossed on a $5 A2 FS anyway. I'd already ordered a 3-prong from DPMS, since I was vauguely thinking of making this a retro-style carbine, but I'll try it out as is for a while first. If I go retro, Northridge has complete A1 furniture sets for $20, tempting...

I have a Ace Shorty Skeleton stock for it now, which is also not very retro. Still not sure if it'll be too muzzle heavy with the light stock. Won't know for sure until www.eaglefirearms.net gets Stag lowers back in stock for $145. Just waiting on a dang lower and my 20-rd magazines to come in the mail.

I'll make a full report once I get the whole shootin' match up and running. I really want it to be done before the Austin THR Shoot two weeks from now. Clock is ticking...

-MV

 

[DMK]

Here's my solution for the time being. And it does have the 20" sight radius, and 1/9 twist M4-profile barrel...

Nice combo! You're making me want to build a lightweight Dissy with an A1 upper.

If not a collapsable, a Cav Arms C1 stock would go nicely with that.

I kinda like the combination of the best of retro and the best of modern. In muscle car circles we call that restifying. You know, like a classic 69 Chevelle all stock, but with modern rubber, a four speed auto and an MPI fuel injected Bowtie crate motor.