Is the A2 Ar-15 obsolete?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm not a benchrest shooter so my AR doesn't require optics. My gun sports a 14.5" noveske barrel, PWS compensator, hydraulic buffer system, telescoping stock, and fully ceramic coated. I would say that all things considered, I have one of the lightest, most durable configurations available that can run circles around the fancier versions.
 
I don't know if they are obsolete or not. I don't own an AR yet. If I could find one that looks like the one KRS posted I would buy it. Today.

The guns with the collasible buttstocks and funky looking forearms don't do it for me. I don't like the way the flat top reciever looks either. Thats one of the pluses with an AR, you can have it your way.

Every time I watch the movie "Southern Comfort" I want an AR that looks like the ones used in that movie.
 
If anyone has one of these obsolete uppers and just can't stand them I'll be glad to take it off your hands.
 
Personally I just need a rifle "AR15A2". No fancy glass, or specialized sighting arrangements.

If I did feel the need there are several ways to mount reflex sights to the carry handle or handguards.
 
A1s have carry handles too. The only AR I ever really trained with in the Army and I like it much better than a flat top carbine.
 
Yeah, I guess when I asked if it was obsolete... i was asking if it was beiung phased out of the military for combat troops.. and how big were the advanatages or diiferences for this so called unconventional warfare. I asked this because I do not have any experience with these optics...but have been eyeing a nice A2 model. However, at the local matches everyone is tricked out with optics. So I am assuming in a real life situation that would never arise... the shorter barrel and optics are the ticket... or maybe it is just the part of me that want to use what the boys are currently using....
 
Well, red dots suppsedly have faster target aquisition, so that could be why they use them at matches, because they want speed. I only have experience with irons, and hunting scopes.
 
It really in trully depends on YOUR purpose for YOUR rifle.

Best post so far.

If you are going to be shooting irons, or red dots or other scopes then the modularity of the flat top is an obvious benefit.

If, OTH, you are only going to shoot irons exclusively, then the fixed carry handle makes sense, especially with the more durable A1-style rear appeture.

Different strokes, different folks.

My "middy" has a flattop upper upon which I currently have a carry handle mounted. Later, I may add mid-range 1.5-4x scope with a 32-40 mm objective. Haven't decided for sure, but that's why I got the flattop.

But I still enjoy shooting irons more than anything else (it's cheaper :D), so I may one day get a 20" upper with fixed, A1-style carry handle.
 
Why not the A2 rear sight?

Well, I like the A2 sight just fine myself, but would like to try the A1 on my next upper.

Some don't like the A2 rear flip sights with the 2 appetures because they find the CQB appeture too large and smaller one too small. I do find the CQB appeture to be a little too big, but the small one is good for me.

The A1 style seems to be just right for most people, not to mention since it is fixed in place it should, in theory, be more durable.
 
I am now 61 but when I was 20, I carried an A-1 as a grunt in Nam in 68. I liked the weight and as others indicated,never used the rear sight as a handle.I carried easily with the shooting hand thumb within the front inside of the "handle" and the rest of the hand in front of the lower receiver in front of the magazine. The A-1 came up quickly and if the situation warranted,a quick look over the rear and front sight would hit anyone at close range.I still have an old SP.Having said all that, I do like the M-4 with the "new fangled" scopes.I had the chance to shoot one and it does aquire the targets quickly.
Having talked to many soldiers coming home, I think the m-4 is good and the scopes are tough, maybe a 16" barrel though. Byron
 
Some don't like the A2 rear flip sights with the 2 appetures because they find the CQB appeture too large and smaller one too small.

That''s because its not a CQB aperture. The larger one is intended for shooting in low light or with an NBC mask on.
 
I like the A2 configuration, it works very well for me - but I have an EOTECH on one para FNFAL - I bought it that way at a pawn shop.
Back to the AR's - I personally like every kind of them and think a M4 lower and 24" flattop upper is in my immediate future. Despise adj. stocks - but they do have a place.
As far as "obsolete" - huge negative on that.
Peep sights are not for me, but shooting in the rain kinda has a downside for scopes or dots. For me.....anyways.
 
i love the iron sights. had eotechs, aimpoints and all that tactical gear. i took all that stuff off and left it bone stock.
 
7star,

No , In my situation, I dont think they are obsolete. When I was deployed overseas, I had the choice of an A2 or an A4 flat top. I chose the A2 because it was broke in, the A4's were brand new and had not had 10 rounds put through them, thus they were very tight.
I knew they wouldnt hold up in the desert environment.

but......As far as design and compatability, the flat top is a better choice due to the ease of attaching optics and a wide variety of different sights.
 
I think iron sights should still be present on a combat rifle but only as back-up.
With an optic you don't have to line up so many points in space to get your true line of sight. Just place the "red dot" on the target and shoot.
There's a reason why 90% of the ww2 fighters had colimated sights. Wide viewing angle and very fast on targert.

This rifle reflex sights are the same thing.
It took some time for the technology to be able to make them small enough, to be installed on a rifle. But just like on the fighting aircraft, this sights are here to stay and will just get better with time.


Few videos of reall ww2 fighter gunsights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXsVg8F91t8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blem3FlkaMc&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7KvpWloagE&feature=related
 
I have the obsolete SP1 or A1 above and like it very much. It also reminds me of a time before I became obsolete so I guess I could say that it helps with homesickness.

But I've also found a lot to like in the carbine shown here. It shoots better, and it's more quick handling, and I can remove the handle and add optics as needed.
 
Last edited:
A lot of people keep mention optics as the only reason to have a flattop; but the advantage of a flattop is that you can attach ALL kinds of sights to it.

Like M14 National Match sights? You can have them on your flattop AR. Like H&K drum sights? They make them for the AR. In fact, you can get just about every type of iron sight imaginable for the AR. Soon, somebody will start making 1,800m volley sights for them :D
 
I am now 61 but when I was 20, I carried an A-1 as a grunt in Nam in 68. I liked the weight and as others indicated,never used the rear sight as a handle.I carried easily with the shooting hand thumb within the front inside of the "handle" and the rest of the hand in front of the lower receiver in front of the magazine. The A-1 came up quickly and if the situation warranted,a quick look over the rear and front sight would hit anyone at close range.I still have an old SP.Having said all that, I do like the M-4 with the "new fangled" scopes.I had the chance to shoot one and it does aquire the targets quickly.
Having talked to many soldiers coming home, I think the m-4 is good and the scopes are tough, maybe a 16" barrel though. Byron

Thanks for the advice... and the grunt work too...
 
WOW! Lots of guys reading too many magazines!

The primary change to the 'A-2' was for the 3 shot burst so barrel overheating wasn't a problem like it was on the A-1.
Barrel overheating and ammo wasting is a problem to this day, but the 3 shot trigger is going the way of the Edsel.

"Hardened" (mono-crystalline) barrels that will take the heat MUCH better are on the way, but not past testing yet...

And anyone that had been on a range testing or in a firefight would know that THROAT EROSION is the reason the 3 shot burst was implemented...

A. Recruit 'Dilbert' gets scared and dumps mags as fast as he can get them in the rifle,

B. Barrel overheats and softens,

C. Softened barrel gives way at the point where chamber pressures & temperatures are highest, in the chamber throat and at the beginning of the rifling,

D. Erosion keeps rifle from cycling, and in some cases, causes barrel blockage and catastrophic failures in combat situations,

E. Military teaches Special Forces 'Operators' to pour canteens over barrels at the chambers to keep them cycling,

F. In stead of the military teaching 'Dilbert' some self control They change the trigger group to 3 shot bursts instead of fully automatic...

G. Operators didn't like being limited to 3 round bursts when trying to suppress an ambush, special forces troops killed, Military reconsiders the 3 shot burst idea,

H. Special Forces and most general military types wanted an 'M-16 variant' that could fire the 100 round drums all day long without having problems,

I. 'Heat Hardened' mono-crystalline barrels, along with many other ideas are cooked up to allow full auto fire without overheating...
But aren't through testing yet,
Although Germany and Austria have had them on SAW's for years...

Y, Because someone needs to tell the truth about this stuff...
Not just regurgitate what they 'Composted' from some magazine article or read on the internet...

----------------------------------

Along with the A-2 Configuration came the adjustable rear sight for elevation and easier controls for windage.

Elevation control on the A-1 was a 'R' (Regular) or unlabeled rear leaf,
And a 'L' labeled leaf. The 'L' was for 'Long Range',
The two holes were RARELY aligned in the leaves, so if you switched from one to the other, it moved your WINDAGE along with the elevation,
AND,
Nothing on the elevation was marked for range! You had to GUESS!

And flipping the leaves was the extent of the rifleman's ability to correct for range in a foxhole.

To correct for range, you had to turn the rifle around, and use a sight tool (or bullet nose if you were desperate) and screw the front sight up and down!

All that when someone is shooting at you! I DON"T THINK SO!
The A-2 brought in a thumb wheel adjustment for the rear sight
..........................


Most of the A-2 Aperture leaves were either a large, open hole that was intended for NIGHT SIGHTS & CQB...
Althought the 20" barrel M-16A2 was NOT inteded for CQB, you COULD use the night sight as a CQB sight.

And the smaller hole in the A2 sight was intended for actually AIMING the Rifle beyond 50 meters.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I, along with all the match shooters and Operators I know prefer the 'National Match' version of the A-2 sights,
Which have 1/4 MOA adjustment 'Clicks' to the windage,
(Instead of the 1/2 MOA clicks of the standard A2 sight)
AND,
Elevation adjustments are smoother and more accurate,
And you get 'Clicks' between 200 and 300, 300 to 400, ect,
Where with the standard A-2 sight you simply got 200,300,400, ect.

And the Aperture holes on the sight leaf are 'Small' and 'Smaller' for better accuracy farther down range.

In 'Operational' situations, We used to drill one out for night/CQB operations, but for the most part the National Match version of rear sight was MUCH MORE ACCURATE than the A-2 version was.
---------------------------------------------------

The A-2 also saw the advent of the 'bump' so left handed shooters didn't wind up with hot brass in their collars!

I saw how the 'Internet Experts' foamed at the mouth, so maybe I shouldn't mention the change in the number of detents in the front sight or the switch from taper pins to roll pins holding the front sight/gas block on...?

And I'm afraid if I mention the changes in the one inch longer stocks, or improved butt plates some heads might explode...

If I say anything about the firing pin detent pin change or the extractor spring change there might be riots!
------------------------------------------

To the OP's question,
No the A-2 isn't anymore 'Obsolete' than the A-1 or the orignal AR-15 or M-16's are.

They are, and will continue to be, just as viable 10 or 15 years from now as they were 45 years ago...

AND,
If we can keep some butt head in procurement from switching things without proper approval and testing,
the rifle will be viable 45 years from now!


(like switching from the orignal IMR Stick powder to ball powder or ordering under cut lighter weight barrels)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top