Is the military anti-gun?

[bill2]

Below is the url and part of an article on a poll of the military on social issues. It appears that on the issue of gun rights the majority of military people in this survey are not opposed to restricting gun rights. I tried to copy and paste it but only the piece below came across, not the spread sheet part. It looks like less than half of the all facets of the military opposed gun restrictions. Any comments by current military people? I would have thought that it would have been the opposite of this, i.e., the majority would have been strongly opposed to gun restrictions.


Respondents were then given five options, Strongly Favor, Favor, Strongly Oppose, Oppose, and Don't Know/No Opinion. [/I][/U][/U][/B]


Making rough comparisons from what we know historically from surveys of the general public, soldiers don't appear to differ much on these issues (for example see Ben Page and Bob Shapiro's, The Rational Public for an overview).
http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2006/06/update_ii_milit.html

 

[spartacus2002]

young soldiers love guns, but the older brass generally frown upon folks owning and having them on base because "Oh Teh Noes!!!!11!!!1!! someone could use them to HURT someone!!!!"

It is generally a control issue. If you haven't lived or worked on a military base, it is hard to swallow how incredibly regulated everything is. It is socialism at its finest -- meant in the sense that the garrison commander and staff believe in passing tons of regulations to force people to conform to expected norms.

Before a ton of people chime in with "I'm in the military and I love guns, so you're wrong," let me explain that I've dealt with legal and regulatory issues for years on several consecutive military bases, so I've seen a lot of stuff that 90% of soldiers never see.

 

[Leatherneck]

I think you're right, Spartacus. It's a control issue. In my experience, soldiers and Marines have a generally greater fondness for guns of all types than the general populace, but not strikingly so. Sailors and airmen, not so much...

TC

 

[04SilverSCFX4]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that the AF guys aren't into guns as much as the Marines. I've seen plenty of guys bringing in firearms into the armory. At my last duty station prior to getting out, our armory was so full, we we had an unwritten policy that if the person didn't stay in the barracks/dorms, shy them away. I know that working the main post gate as an early enlisted SF (MP equiv.) when I discovered or was told by an on-comer they had a firearm and wanted to know what to do with it, I told them they could unofficially take it to base housing or register it in the armory where everyone can finger-bang it....Your choice. I don't remember seeing to many folks making the turn to the armory.

As far as the socialist comment, totally in aggreeance. I was spoon-fed so much B.S. at the hands of incompetent officers nco's I had enough.

 

[steveracer]

It's iffy...

...there are a lot of guys in the Navy who I've spoken to who don't own a gun, have never held one except for duty, and don't have any interest in shooting. These are the great majority. Then there's the ten percent of us who are shooters, and enjoy shooting, even if it's with the craptastic Beretta.

 

[MechAg94]

The plants I have worked at always have had "no guns" policies. I asked an old manager about the restriction against even having them in your cars. His attitude was that he did want guns as the plant since some disgruntled worker might have easy access to his gun when he gets laid off or gets a bad review.

Not sure if that view is the same with generals or not. I never understood the things I heard of soldiers getting issued rifles with no ammo and such. I thought it was pretty stupid. I've never been in the army though.

 

[crazed_ss]

Hmm in my old repair shop in the Marines we had a number of people who didnt care for guns in the hands of citizens. They had no qualms about firing their M-16's or SAWs because those were weapons of war and I guess they same them as having a legit use.. Me and a couples buddies were into guns and other Marines would call us "crazy" or "gun nuts".. My boss was a Marine Capt.. He doesnt have a problem with people having shotguns, bolt/lever-action rifle and pistols.. but he doesnt think people should have military style EBRs. He also doesnt believe in Shall-issue CCW laws.

 

[ID_shooting]

As an armorer it was my job to store the POW (personally owned weapons) in my arms room. We had a company of around 125 people. I had the max of 5 POWs at any given time. All of them were nickle plated gangsta guns.

I don't think that the military is anti-gun as much as it is all about instilling control. Some, especially the non-ground forces or civilians may not get this and think it is a bad thing. In reality, when ordering people to do things that aren't in our nature (Hey you! Ya you! Go agress that machine gun nest!) you need a level of dependancy that somtimes violates the Bill Of Rights.

I had no trouble with it while I served. I knew going in that I was giving up my life and my will while I was there.

 

[striker3]

Notice what he OP actually said:

It appears that on the issue of gun rights the majority of military people in this survey are not opposed to restricting gun rights.

In my 7 years of active duty up-to-date, I have found this to be true. While most of the Marines I serve with enjoy shooting guns, not many of them are opposed to government restrictions on ownership.

I am slowly winning over converts by giving them the nessacary history/government lessons, but it is slow going. Those of us who are in to firearms are labeled as gun nuts. Heck, just this morning as I pulled into work I got a comment about being the "bell tower" type. All because I have a nice collection of rifles.

 

[bill2]

when I started this post, I forgot to say

that I was in the Army, '74 - '78, including 3 years in Germany and the last 8 months in Fort Ord CA. I was one of a very few that owned any private guns at all. I had a couple of pistols in the company armory. the vast majority of the company, as best as I can recall, did not express any interest in shooting.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Go back and reread spartacus2002's post (it's #2). This may not be the exact reason for the results of this survery, but it is 100% the honest truth about being in the military.

I know a fair number of people that are into guns. You will find more of them in the combat arms (Infantry esp). One thing to remember is that the Army includes a lot of people who, just like the a lot of the rest of society, see nothing wrong with "reasonable restrictions" on guns "for the children." The Army is representative of the rest of society in that respect.

But I think the senior people definitely fall into what spartacus2002 described. Looking back since joining the Army, I'm not at all surprised to have heard Wesley Clark say "If you want an M-16, join the Army" in the 2004 election.

 

[ugaarguy]

I think you're right, Spartacus. It's a control issue. In my experience, soldiers and Marines have a generally greater fondness for guns of all types than the general populace, but not strikingly so. Sailors and airmen, not so much...

Airmen, not so much? I'm currently on active duty in the Air Force in gun friendly SW Idaho. Here at Mt. Home AFB guns go in the armory if you live in the dorms. Others in base housing can keep them there as long they register them with Security Forces. An NCO in my shop who recently PCSed here, when offered base housing, said "I've got 38 guns I'd have to register, is that ok?" The reply from whomever he was speaking to in our leadership (can't remember who exactly) was "Sure, we've got one guy here who has something like 70 or 80." Now I also know that most folks who requset this base, from the Airman Basics to the Squadron Commanders, generally try to get stationed here because it's rural, quiet, and there are plenty of outdoor activities - like shooting, hunting, and fishing. On a comedic note our squadron medics made a recent gun show in Boise a 'mandatory' formation on a Saturday morning . I know the climate here is a bit different than many other bases, but I'd still say many Airmen (all ranks incl. officers) are very pro-gun.

 

[LT1coupe]

Funny, my oldest is in the AF & carries anytime it's legal & loves to shoot.
My other son is in the Navy & has a CCW permit.
I don't think I've ever met a military man that doesn't have an interest in guns. I know I've never met one who thought civilians should not be armed.
Maybe I'm just used to Texans

 

[leadcounsel]

To me it seems odd that those in command of the armed forces seem to have such a concern with allowing their TRAINED soldiers own, carry or keep arms.

For instance, how about that order from the General in Alaska prohibiting OFF BASE CCW!!!???

 

[sacp81170a]

Another factor that may contribute to low gun ownership in the military is the poverty level wages the lowest enlisted grades are paid. It's kinda hard to afford a nice collection when you're an E-3 with a wife and kids and constantly having to move around and deploy. Ya don't miss what ya can't have anyway. I remember when I was in ('79-'89) most E-5's and below with two kids qualified for food stamps.

 

[Rockrivr1]

"I think you're right, Spartacus. It's a control issue. In my experience, soldiers and Marines have a generally greater fondness for guns of all types than the general populace, but not strikingly so. Sailors and airmen, not so much..."

It's not so much that Sailors are against gun ownership. It's more along the lines that no Sailor is allows to own guns on a naval ship. Basically the only weapons allowed are whats in the armory and those only get taken out very infrequently. How often they get taken out also depends on what type of ship you're on as well. I've known several Sailors, including myself, who are gun owners who have had withdrawals like there is no tomorrow for thier guns back home while out to sea for 9 months. At Subic Bay in the Phillipeans, there was a gun range / Trap Field not far from where we docked. It got pretty busy there once we'd docked for a bit. There were other needs that came first though.

 

[dm1333]

My experience with the Coast Guard has been a little different. In 14 years I have been stationed on one patrol boat and 3 small boat stations(all in rural areas). At all of the 3 stations there were a lot of gun friendly, anti gun restriction people but that may also have been because a lot of the people at these stations wanted to live in remote areas for the hunting and fishing opportunities. We are also required to maintain a personal weapons log at each station so that personnel can store their weapons on base. I have seen larger Coast Guard bases where shooting sports were encouraged with trap/skeet ranges and being allowed to use official ranges for personal use. There even used to be some exchanges that sold weapons. Some of the larger cutters still have morale shotguns and skeet shoot while at sea.

 

[vito]

I served for 24 years in the US Army, and most individuals that I knew in the service were comfortable with guns (even some doc's and nurses) and personally support individual gun rights. But the Army as an institution seems to be much less supportive. When living on base I was required to register every gun that I owned. I had the priviledge of serving as the Inspector General for a major US Army installation in the late 80's and I almost had the installation commander convinced to eliminate gun registration, but the Provost Marshal vigorously opposed this action and prevailed.

 

[mbt2001]

The military is anti-gun in the hands of civies, because it is an extention of government and like all government is despotic by nature...

I don't think that they are "anti-gun" in general when it comes to the idea of guns versus phasers or missles or something... I think in that view it is just an implement.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Many years ago, when my nephew was home on shore leave, the subject of guns came up.

He mentioned his extensive time in Japan, and how crime-free the country was.

His sister and I debated him endlessly, but to no avail.

He was an officer then (forget what rank), and is now a Commander, so the comments about higher-ups posted above ring true in his case.

 

[rms/pa]

rockrivr 1 said,
"no Sailor is allows to own guns on a naval ship. Basically the only weapons allowed are whats in the armory and those only get taken out very infrequently."

not in my limited experience. '77-'81 usn gmg

showed up at service school command with my .45 asked for the armoury and checked it in.
first ship (HULL DD945)asked for the duty gunnersmate and checked it in.
second ship(PAUL F. FOSTER DD964) same/same

never had any questions asked about it.

rms/pa

 

[FPrice]

I've known quite a few people in the Air Force who were gun owners and a lot who had concealed carry permits.

I've also known quite a few who were totally against guns.

Whether the percentages match the general US population as a whole, well they were probably close but I can't say for sure.

One of the most adamant against ordinary people having handguns was a reserve officer who was also a senior engineer on Patriot missles. In addition he was a Scoutmaster who had no problems teaching his scouts to shoot .22 rifles. But handguns? No one should be allowed to own them and there was absolutely no discussion about the subject 'cause he was right and everyone else was wrong.

That's about the time that I started thinking that maybe Michael Savage was right about liberalism being a mental disease.

 

[30-06 lover]

Funny how it seems the high ranking people (controllers) don't want the grunts to have any of the artillery??? Does this sound familiar to anyone else???

 

[mljdeckard]

I flipped through the survey and the responses.

Keep a couple of things in mind. Great joke; "You know what the difference is between the army and the boy scouts? The boy scouts have adult leaders."

Some of the smartest people in America are in our armed forces. some of the most UNBELIEVEABLY STUPID people in America are in our armed forces. (I once had to run a guy in our medic platoon to the hospital because his buddies tried to give him a Jack daniels IV. Really happened.) Soldiers will do stupid things among their ranks. For this reason, while they have the best weapons in the world, they are treated like children. They are so used to walking around with empty weapons, they become careless in their handling, and when they actually go to war, they make stupid mistakes.

Soldiers have a singular mentality about gun control. If there is a gun around, they want to be in control of it. They are looking at things (particularly now) from the point of view of an armed forces fighting among an armed population. (We have not sought to disarm the population of Iraq.) And from our perspective, we like to espouse that all people are allowed to be armed, but from their point of view, every armed person is a potential threat.

In all fairness, I think that just as warriors detach and have a different mentality in wartime than they would in peace, they have a different perspective about gun ownership when they are civillians again.

Another factor that comes to mind, at least in MY experience, is the fact that, many soldiers come from a violent environment, and join the army as an opportunity to have something better. When they think of civillians and guns, they have only negative experiences.

 

[gunsmith]

One of my Infantry buddies

thinks only people in the Army "need" EBR's and if ordered to
take peoples guns he would.
When he was in Bagdhad it bugged him that they (Iraqi's) could have AK's.

I would hate to have to engage a soldier of his caliber in a firefight to protect my guns, my buddy is tough as nails

As seen by the NOLA video's soldiers and police will follow confiscation orders.

That stinks!

I would never have confiscated guns from Americans when I was National Guard...