Is the military anti-gun?

[Thin Black Line]

As seen by the NOLA video's soldiers and police will follow confiscation orders.

That's right, no one wants to get in trouble and lose their pension. When
it's a choice between their financial future and your rights, you will lose
every time. If it's a PMC (Private Military Company), they will be paid very
very well to ignore your rights.

 

[Werewolf]

To me it seems odd that those in command of the armed forces seem to have such a concern with allowing their TRAINED soldiers own, carry or keep arms.

It isn't odd at all...

Think about CCW and the restrictions in many, if not most, states about where license holders can and cannot carry.

Can't carry in government buildings, can't carry in bars, can't carry at professional athletic events and can't carry at schools.

What do all those places have in common? They are all places where our masters work, play or their children go.

Why should military masters - oops - officers be any different from their civilian counterparts?

 

[Rockrivr1]

"not in my limited experience. '77-'81 usn gmg

showed up at service school command with my .45 asked for the armoury and checked it in.
first ship (HULL DD945)asked for the duty gunnersmate and checked it in.
second ship(PAUL F. FOSTER DD964) same/same

never had any questions asked about it."

rms/pa, I'm glad your commanders were good about that. Were you in the East Coast or West Coast Fleet? It was not allowed when I was attached to the 7th Fleet 85-91.

Monkeyleg, I actually have to agree with your Nephew's experiences in Japan. I did a stint on the USS Midway that was stationed out of Yokosuka. Crime rate is just about nil. Japan is very strict about gun ownership, but that isn't the reason they have almost no crime. The reason is that the general population isn't scared sheeple like we have in this country. I've actually seen with my own eyes a girl yell for help on the street in a suburb of Tokyo and was completely shocked to see people come running out of everywhere to assist her. I'm talking what looked like the whole block. They assist if a crime is happening. I asked a Japanese girl I was dating at the time about this and she said that the mentality is that if someone yelled for help, it would shame a person if they didn't assist in any way they could. From what she told me, if someone witnesses a crime they most always volunteer to be a witness in court so the bad guy will be put away instead of let back on the street. You can say a lot of things about their culture, but being cowards is not one of them.

 

[rms/pa]

Rockrivr1 said "rms/pa, I'm glad your commanders were good about that. Were you in the East Coast or West Coast Fleet? It was not allowed when I was attached to the 7th Fleet 85-91."

service school was GLAKES IL.
home port for both the HULL and Foster were San Diego CA. 3d,5th and 7th Fleets depending.
3d fleet command was VADM NEAL at the time.

the range at 32 street base was horrible.

rms/pa

 

[grimjaw]

IMLE, working at Pope AFB for four years with Ft Bragg next door, it's somewhat representative of the population. There were Airmen who were loathe to qualify or even handle firearms, and some who loved it. Many just considered it a part of the job. Army was different, with so much infantry running around, but there were still people who just considered it part of the job. I agree that the control aspect is a big part of it. I think one of the differences in the military is that you will find fewer people who blindly fear firearms, because they will have had practical experience with them.

jmm

 

[Pilgrim]

It's not so much that Sailors are against gun ownership. It's more along the lines that no Sailor is allows to own guns on a naval ship.

During my senior NROTC summer training, I was on a diesel-electric submarine. The captain was an avid shooter. His favorite weapon was a M-79 grenade launcher which he used to shoot sharks.

I was surprised to find that several of the sailors had their personal weapons on board and were permitted to keep them in their bunk lockers as armory space was limited. I asked a sailor about this and he said, "The captain trusts us. He said if we really wanted to 'get' him we don't need guns."

As for the 'control' issue mentioned so often in this thread. I don't think it a psychological trait of military commanders, but a response to the military's 'zero' tolerance for error. If something can go wrong, it will, so the natural response is to regulate and restrict.

 

[thumper723]

Pilgrim,

It is still a CO decision. On an unnamed ship (to protect one of the few COOL SWOs I have dealt with, The CO carries 2 1911's EVERYWHERE Condition 1.

He let the Air Det do the same. I was the only pilot who brought his own. SA HiCap 1911. 14+1 of 45 ACP goodness.

On another cruise, the CO/XO made it a pain the rear to just get our M11s out of the armory, never mind carrying. Unless you could SEE Iraq from the bridge. Kind of hard to in CVOA 4.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that the AF guys aren't into guns as much as the Marines. I've seen plenty of guys bringing in firearms into the armory. At my last duty station prior to getting out, our armory was so full, we we had an unwritten policy that if the person didn't stay in the barracks/dorms, shy them away. I know that working the main post gate as an early enlisted SF (MP equiv.) when I discovered or was told by an on-comer they had a firearm and wanted to know what to do with it, I told them they could unofficially take it to base housing or register it in the armory where everyone can finger-bang it....Your choice. I don't remember seeing to many folks making the turn to the armory.

I would agree with the marines being more into guns than AF.

I'm USAF and I'd wager that I'm more into guns than most servicemen. I'm an exception- not the rule. Most people I work with in the military think I'm a gun nut. My commander, who probably wouldn't remember what section I work in, remembers me as the gun nut guy.

A lot of people in the AF own guns for home defense (as in the civilian world, but I wouldn't say there's a larger number in the AF).

 

[Old Dog]

To actually answer the question posed in the original post, I'd say (a resounding) NO. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the the percentage of "gun people" in the (active) military is far higher than in the civilian community.

Please, let's not turn this into a "my branch is more into guns than your branch" thread. My take is that there's plenty of gun folk in every branch, in relatively high percentages (compared to the non-military folk).

I spent more than twenty-five years active duty USN (retired within the past six months) and can tell you that your average Sailor is far more amenable to the concept of the right to keep and bear arms than your average civilian. And yes, Sailors love firearms too (and I'd daresay the USAF guys as well) just as much as your average Marine or soldier...

From E-1 to O-7, I think you'll find that most who go into the military at least understand and appreciate the basic aspects of gun ownership, the attendent responsibilities, and the need for the right to keep and bear arms, far better than many civilians do.

 

[jeepmor]

military and gun control

The military is all about control, to the point it stymies progress. Much like a big corporation that swells in middle management. But my take is that military personnel can be just as influenced by social issues and the media as normal civilian types.

Deep down, it's a personal preference of the individual based on many factors. But for the military, the populace not having weapons makes their job a lot easier and safer without a doubt. Which is probably why you have the upper eschelon officers leaning toward more gun control and restrictions, not less.

And many military folks know they will, or may be, using firearms in duty and there is a certain thrill factor to this. Especially since most of the people joining the military are young.

As a whole, my only interface with the military is through my brother in the coast guard, and he is pro gun and quite the hunter to boot. But this by no means makes me remotely qualified for more than anything than the usual internet babble.

 

[Old Dog]

The military is all about control, to the point it stymies progress.

Sigh. Oh, brother ...

 

[spartacus2002]

Old Dog,
having spend the last 13 years in/around the Army, I do have to agree with jeepmor's comment about control. The Army has been hit with a zero-tolerance mentality since about 1992, when the RIFs began after the first Gulf War and great officers got let go because there was only room for really great officers. Since then, there has been a mentality of "I can't let anybody have judgment or discretion, else they might screw up and make me look bad because I didn't stop/prevent it." Not everyone is like that, but it is pretty bad.

 

[Dannyboy]

It is about control but it has nothing to do with socialism.