Brains, Brains, BRRRAINNNSSSsss!
Another undead thread comes to the surface once again.
2003 and then suddenly at the end of 2007? This thing has got to be hungery.
(Long post warning)
I am getting tired of reading about how the Mini-14 was ineneded to give "civilians" a military like .223 rifle. Maybe you guys knew a different Bill Ruger than the rest of us were aware of.
The Min-14 was origionally marketed as a Law Enforcement gun as a step up from the two most common patrol rifles of the day, the WInchester Model 94 in .30-30 ( about $90 from police supply houses) or the M-1 Carbine (About the same for police departments for new commercial guns or $35 for a used GI gun direct from the Army)
RUger figureds that if they could under cut the cost of a Colt SP-1 (AR-15) by 20 percent or so they could catch the market for getting police patrol carbines out of the 1890's or 1940's. Look at the gulf between those two most common choices, the '94 had power to spare for things inside normal police ranges and penitration of car bodies and frame housing and trailors as well, instant crazed live stock dropper as well. The carbine had a bunch of rounds available very fast and as at the time many law enforcement folks were XGI and familure with the little carbine.
The Mini was to combine the atributes of both for the LEO.
Prior to the release of the Mini the Gun Writers got to play with proto types that featured a shrunken version of the rear sights from an M-1 or M-14. As the sights of the AR-15 were considered garbage by many those fully adjustable with out tools rear sights looked like a fantastic idea and many of us lusted for the Mini before it went into full production. Unfortunately Ruger was in business to make money. WHen it was noted that the complex, whole lotta machining rear sight was a high cost item Ruger didtched it for the sort of Frankenstein AR rear with elevation via drum and detent as well.
Ruger had their $200 retail gun to go against Colts $240 retail gun (and Armalite's AR-180 that was about to be rereleased at about $260)and were happy....until the LEO sales just weren't happening with the speed they had hoped for. At last the guns were released for sale to the public, still cheaper than the SP1 folks snapped them up.....even though they came with a five round magazine and Ruger did not authorize sale of the 20 rounders to the public.
For whatever reason Ruger 20 rounders were available in the Armed Forces in Europe Rod and Gun Club System and that is were I got mine......and no I never had a magazine problem while I was opperating the rifle. FOlks not familure with the M-14/AK magazine tilt to engage the front edge (folks intially trained on the M-16A1) invariably tried to just push the magazine straight up and so over ride the firat round or jam its nose against the reciever below the feed ramps.
The ranch rifle was simply in response to customers complaining about the dificulty of securely mounting a scope and the ability to mount it low enought to be able to keep a good stock weld. The new machining to do the Ruger propriotory mounts initially drove up costs again until the new folding Williams type rear peep was adopted. The rear of the reciever then required less machining and the rear sight group it self was cheaper as well.
I think the Mini has it all over the AK as far as ergonomics goes. Any of us old farts teethed on the M-1 or M-14 rifles will find it very familiar. The ability to click the safety on or off with the trigger finger without changing the grip and not having the safety movement sound like an acceident in a body shop is a real plus. Magazine changes are the same as the AKs. The sights on the Mini are where they should be. ANd finally while I know it makes no difference to our rights or our manliness, the Mini-14 in issue garb does not look like evil incarnate and the guns carried by "Bad Guys"
BTW when the Mini came out the only available "AK" in the US (other than a very small number of pre'68 NFA guns) were the Valmet M62 guns, retail was around $300 and parts and magazines were not to be had. Ammo was a real problem in the US for AKs as well. It has been suggested that the Valmet .223 guns were created mainly to break into the US market with common ammo. About seven years after the Mini was on the market the first of the AKM semi auto rifles came in via Styer from Maadi. They looked as nice as any AK I had seen (even the East German ones of the time) and retail was a mere $1200 (yep 12 and two zeros) though it dropped to a much more affordable $850 in a couple of years. SO you could have bought one for about the same price as three Minis with a few spare mags at the time.
Only when China got most favored nation status and started pouring basically slave built AKs type rifles on the US market at priced less than a Mini and stinky old surplus ammo did having a cool "bad" gun begin to seem not stupid beyound belief or just plain "look at how rich I am" snootie.
So far the worst stock Minis I have experience with have been more accurate with over the counter ammo than AKs.
They can be both fitted with "High Capacity" magazines.
Both can today use over the counter ammo, though I not that places that Do offer 7.62x39 are out numbered by places offering .223 and that were I find one ot two choices of 7.62x39 I typically find two to four times as many choices of .223 ammo.
If I use a rifle for home defense, or in defense of others as a truck gun, I believe a Standard wood stocked Mini "Hunting Rifle" with a five round magazine in place will frighten a jury less than even a Saiga never mind an actual "Bad Guy Gun"
I beleive that if I have to leave the house in a Katrina situation bad enough that I feel tote'n a rifle is in order that I will attract less attention from over worked LEOs and National Guardsfolk and, more importantly trigger unhappy armed frightened home owners, carrying the wood stocked flush magazined Mini than a Bulgarian AK 74 or Polish Tanwhatever. (I will of course havethe pockets of my Jeans Jackety stuffed with reliable 20 rounders of course)
If I were a young (or old) new shooter, or advising one, and could afford either I would buy the Mini so that when I go to the range (not wearing cammies or skulls or smart ass t-shirts) I might not be viewed by the old farts that tend to hang out on shooting ranges and have some idea what they are doing as "one of those Jerks with one of those damned Commie guns that make us all look bad" Not fostering that opinion right off the bat might lead to one of the old farts actually taking an interst in you and actually teaching you what you need to know to be a safe, and accurate shooter. Once they have helped you for a few months and you have gained their trust then you can be obnoxious at less personal cost. I learned this by showing up at ranges wearing Cammie trousers, a skull pin on my boonie hat and smart ass t-shirts carrying a black rifle with a "bannana" magazine before some posters on THR were born BTW. Learn from the mistakes of others.
I have enjoyed shooting AKs and still do and if the Zombies ever rise up or Cuban Paratroopers start landing in the back yard I might snatch up an AK before a Mini. Until then, between the two its a Mini.
As to the Mini being the American AK......Nope. The AK was designed and originally built for Centrally Planned Economies and Centrally Controlled Governments. The Mini was designed and originally built for for a Free Market Socioty and a freely elected government acting under the constraints of a Constitution that restricted the powers of the government.
WHen they governmets that originally made AKs for their use were and in some cases are still Centrally planned and controlled socioties at no time could Joe or Jane the average good citizen go into a store and purchase an AK and ammo and keep them at home or drive around with them in their non exixtant privately owned Pick up trucks. Very shortly after the entroduction of the Mini US citizens in good standing could walk in to a gun shop or if memory serves Woolco and such and walk out with a Mini and ammo and drop them in their Ford F-150 and drive off.
So the Mini can not be considered the American AK or SKS.
I suppose the closest thing in terms of origianal intent and use in the US to the AK is the AR-15. Before you get all bent out of shape over the cost, consider.....in terms of the value of an hour's work in the US verses most other places making an AK how much more than an AK does an AR-15 cost? If it were possible for say a Chinese worker when they were dumping the AK super cheap how many hours would it take him to earn enough to pay for the cheapest of the no frills AKs compaded to say Someone working at Colt's?
What would it cost in terms of work hours for a Bulgarian making 5.56 NATO AK 74 rifles verses someone at Bushmaster or Armalite or such to purchase a stock AR?
It looks like the AR is the closest thing to an American AK as it gets.
The Mini is....a Mini.
-Bob Hollingsworth
