Is the revolver really a practical defensive weapon?

[ArmedBear]

My experience is, expect a 90% degradation in performance in actual combat

Yes, but if you think about it...

Say, of the first 3 rounds, you can put at least one of them in a one-inch circle at 5 yards, when not under stress. See the target above; this is not unrealistic. 90% degradation would be what, a 10 inch circle under stress? Still a hit if you aim at center-mass. (At least some one-shot-kill defensive shootings suggest a bit less than 90% degradation in group size.)

Assuming that the rest of the rounds will be less accurate than the first few when not under stress, they'll be even less accurate when you are under stress. Hence the hunter's experience that, if you miss the first couple shots, you'll probably just be wasting rounds after that.

So, if your performance really does degrade 90% or more, firing endless rounds still doesn't help your odds, because they're subject to the same degradation.

 

[shep madera]

A revolver with speed loaders?

What about a revolver with a loaded speed loader or two as a nightstand weapon? Around here, we'd rather not have a loaded weapon in the house, but a semi-auto with a loaded clip or a wheel gun with a speed loader or two might be comforting.

I have a 1963 era Ruger Super Single Six with both cylinders available, but since I have developed ulnar drift in both hands--a result of rheumatoid arthritis--I am not up to snuff when speed and dexterity count. And while a gate-loading single action .22 might be fine as a trail gun, I don't think fumbling in the dark with it and its ammo is the answer.

Therefore, I'm looking for a lightly-used service piece of the .32-.38 families such as the S&W Combat Masterpiece or something in the 3-4-inch barrel category that could also serve as a car gun or suitable as a CCW. Any ideas or suggestions will be welcome and appreciated. Thanks.

 

[ArmedBear]

Speed loaders take some dexterity to use effectively. I'd make sure you can use them before you buy something like that; I'm not sure what loss of dexterity you have, specifically.

Now there are some (expensive) autoloaders designed for competition with magazine wells that will load quickly if you get within an inch of the right spot. Might be worth it, depending.

Of course, it didn't seem to me that Western MT was overwhelmed by urban street criminals, the one time I was there.

 

[florida1098]

Armedbear, use to be strictly a revolver guy, nypd model 10 for 20 yrs even when everyone else was switching over to Glocks. I strongly avoided switching. Worked on patrol in Harlem and upper Manhattan and drew my Smith many times. Now I am working in another place and Glock 40's are the Dept's choice. In my personal opinion, there is still a place, and I love revolvers. But for SD there is nothing like having 15 rounds loaded and 30 more ready to drop in on a split second. More rounds simply better the odds even when shooting degrades. I don't hunt so can't debate you there, but 10 to 15 rounds thrown at a perp give way better chance of either their retreat, their apprehension, or taking control of them. It also strongly stops them from advancing on you while you reload a six shot from a speedloader, or strip, or worse, loose in pocket. There are still times (though far and few between now) when I carry my 340PD, but not comfortable with all the drawbacks of it. I do have a model 27 that does nightstand duty, which in a home defense situation, I fel is the right weapon.

 

[RyanM]

Well, here's an article I wrote on the subject. http://www.corneredcat.com/FirstGun/anotherview.aspx

To sum up the pros and cons (as they'd relate to someone new to shooting and CCW, anyway):

*Revolvers have a much wider choice of aftermarket grips available; you can get a grip any size, any shape, any angle.
*With the right grips, a revolver can "point" naturally for just about anyone.
*A revolver is more tolerant of poor maintenance (lack of lubrication, etc.).
*Easier to use for someone who lacks arm strength.
*Much easier to load using loose rounds.

However, the caveats:
*A revolver's DA trigger will always be heavier than an SA or precock DAO auto's trigger.
*Fewer shots.
*Larger size for a given power and capacity, if you use factory ammo (.357 from short barrel usually = .40 S&W from short barrel, with factory stuff).
*More complicated to reload.
*Slightly more felt recoil.

Main advantage, I'd say, is the grips. There's only so much you can do with an auto, but the sky's the limit with a revo.

 

[RedLion]

when ever anyone asks me if 6 rounds are too few, I just tell them that if thats what they are worried about then they should invest in something bigger than a handgun or change their address.

 

[Cosmoline]

A revolver's DA trigger will always be heavier than an SA or precock DAO auto's trigger.

Weight isn't everything. The followup SA shots from the semis I've shot have had horrible, grainy triggers compared with a wheelgun's. A tuned Smith or Colt will have a DA trigger pull like liquid velvet and can fire faster than a semi can cycle. Indeed the superior triggers are one of the main reasons I favor revolvers, and one reason they're so fast to fire. Only a 1911 or similar SA C&L semi can really compete with them in the trigger department.

 

[ArmedBear]

Hell, Florida, sounds like you're talking about combat more than defense.

I never wanted to suggest that a cop in Harlem might not want lots of rounds. I was thinking, at least in part, of a use like you'd envision for your 27, and that a revolver is still viable.

Good to know you're still in one piece (and in a more comfortable place).

 

[Schofield3]

I say the revolver makes a fine defensive weapon; the one thing that counts is accuracy whether it be revolvers, autos, rifles- and different firearms work better for different individuals-

 

[RyanM]

Weight isn't everything. The followup SA shots from the semis I've shot have had horrible, grainy triggers compared with a wheelgun's. A tuned Smith or Colt will have a DA trigger pull like liquid velvet and can fire faster than a semi can cycle.

Weight does make a difference for those with hand strength issues, though. I myself, had horrible problems with tendinitis a few years ago, which are now resolved. There were days when I physically could not pull an 8-10 pound trigger.

For someone with severe arthritis, carpal tunnel, or tendinitis, using an SA or precocked DAO auto, and having someone else load the mags and rock the slide, may be the only realistic choice.

 

[Newton]

These are superb responses. The quality of these arguments are what makes this site what it is.

Thanks guys.

 

[Shawnee]

Yes

 

[Hawk]

Revolvers make very practical defensive weapons. For many they will prove to be a superior choice to a semiauto.

But it's still really nice to see RyanM's article at CorneredCat - while revolvers are great for any number of reasons I've not found them to be more reliable or simpler than semiautos - for precisely the reasons noted in the article. Good work.

 

[jad0110]

With one important exception, the combat reload. It is magazine capacity and the ease of rapid reloading under pressure that gives the edge to the automatic for service use.

Proficieny is the key, as a semi auto reload can be botched pretty easily too. I am embarrassed to admit that I tried sticking a magazine in my 1911 ... backwards . And I was relaxed and calm too. I am actually more proficient reloading my 686 with speedloaders than my 1911, so I can reload a bit faster with my 686.

Plus I can shoot it better too.

Now for personal self-defense use, a revolver may be perfectly satisfactory -- but remember, the primary cause of stoppages in actual engagements is running out of ammo.

That may be true, but I lean more towards the other primary failure I hear about: running out of time.

Weight isn't everything. The followup SA shots from the semis I've shot have had horrible, grainy triggers compared with a wheelgun's. A tuned Smith or Colt will have a DA trigger pull like liquid velvet and can fire faster than a semi can cycle. Indeed the superior triggers are one of the main reasons I favor revolvers, and one reason they're so fast to fire. Only a 1911 or similar SA C&L semi can really compete with them in the trigger department.

Well said, though I do acknowledge RyanM's point as well. To me, a super slick revolver trigger at 8 to 10 lbs DA will feel lighter than a 1911 with a gritty 6 lb pull. Of all the autos I've shot, only the 1911 comes close to a nice DA wheelgun in my book. Now, I admit that my S&Ws all have stock DA triggers (no tuning or polishing), so I'd rate the quality of their DA pulls as "acceptable" to "decent", though I'd like for them to be made "Superb" by a reputable smith one day.

Back to the OP's question. I choose to carry a revolver, a S&W 642 (most of the time) simply because I shoot revolvers better. I do carry a 1911 occaisionally as it is a larger, easier to shoot platform. Though I have outshot the 1911 with 642 once or twice, which is why I've added an intermediate sized revolver to my wish list for IWB duty.

Shot placement trumps capacity for a citizen like me, IMO. If you shoot an auto better and are more confortable with it, by all means, pack one! More rounds are nice, but choosing capacity for the sake of capacity alone is a mistake.

 

[BlindJustice]

I like the .45 ACP - I have:
a S&W 1911 5" Bbl.
& S&W 625 5" Bbl.

EIther one with an extra mag or some full moon clips with
230 gr. Speer Gold DOt JHPs are my HD/SD load of choice

& yah know I practice with both, and some days
I shoot the 1911 best, other days the 625

I also have a Model 60 J-frame .357 Mag 3" Bbl.
but the HD/SD load is .38 Spcl +P Speer GD JHP

The 686P even with the .38 Spcl +P I just shoot the
60 better, as well as the 7 shot cyl. one or two of the
empties always hang up on extraction on the thumb release.
so I just use it at the range, keep trying but it's fourth
on my list of SHTF

.

 

[Guillermo]

The simplicity of operation make a revolver an excellent choice for self preservation. As is obvious, the only significant difference is capacity.

Most of us have not fired at a human being. Thank God for that. Unfortunately I have. The most I ever fired was 4 shots.

Personally I believe that I am equally well armed with one of my beloved revolvers or one of my effective striker fired pistols.

 

[Confederate]

Why would a full size revolver ever make sense over an automatic?

It all depends on circumstances and what you're comfortable with.

It also depends on what you're defending yourself from. And where you are when you are defending yourself.

Many people simply prefer revolvers. Revolvers are a bit more reliable and generally a bit more powerful. No autoloader round has ever quite equalled the .357 mag 125-gr JHP for pure efficiency in putting down a determined human foe. And if you encounter a bad primer, a new round is much faster and easier to get into battery. If someone is ensconced, a revolver is a very good, efficient tool. And in the wilderness, a well-chosen revolver packs enough punch to put down an angry bear or cougar.

Many people simply prefer autoloaders. Autoloaders hold more rounds and they spit them out much more rapidly than most people can empty a revolver. Reloading also is far easier. Multiple targets are easier to engage than with a revolver in most cases.

Wherever you go, using an autoloader will spew out brass all over the place. Sometimes that may not be what you want. People can collect your brass and make your life miserable, or be interpreted ambiguously by forensics "experts" to work against you. It may be a shocking thought, but there have been one or two unscrupulous prosecutors every now and then who have made the lives of innocent civilians miserable. Again, brass is not discreet, nor does it behave in a constant manner when ejected from firearms.

Me, I prefer revolvers for the most part. But if I were a cop and going out and looking for trouble, I'd take an autoloader any day.

.

 

[Jim March]

As I write this I'm sitting at a cheap Mexican feed place in Tucson AZ. (Laptop and cellular modem card combo rocks .)

In the fanny pack on my waist (decorated with peace sign patches with a head shop - think "Camo For Democrats") is a Ruger New Vaquero 357 . First two rounds are good 38+Ps, next four are Doubletap 800ft/lbs full-house Gold Dot 125gr 357s.

Why?

This gun fits my hand like nothing else. That's because the hammer has been swapped and stock grips shaved by me, for my hands.

Sights are also improved with a dovetailed front, rear sight channel hogged out to match.

This gun can do 2" groups at 25 yards. It also "points naturally" for me like nothing else.

First shot speed just rocks...and it's an *accurate* first shot.

As to the ammo: if those first two subsonics haven't solved the problem, the gun dials itself up to "extra crispy" and cuts loose some serious power. If I'm real lucky and firing from cover, goblins may think a second shooter has joined the party on my side, as I guarantee the sound profile will be "different". Read that as "who the %$#^% set off a howitzer!?"

I don't guarantee y'all I'll win a gunfight. But I do promise a goblin will know they've tangled with something nasty .

 

[1 old 0311]

The late Dave Arnold, gun writer, former world class shooter, and Police Officer in Rhodesia, wrote that he kept a S&W .357 in his night stand. Considering he had access to darn near every firearm made, that is a pretty good endorsement.

 

[20nickels]

Jim, Practicing with my friends New Vaquero and snap caps two days ago has reminded me that a single action is no slouch for self defense. When drawing and firing I found having to cock the hammer added zero time to the first shot.

On another note when I did own a Glock 23 I rarely loaded to full capicity. In fact for HD it regularly only held 5 rounds to save the springs with anther 5 rd clip nearby. Say what you will, but I felt that there was very little that I couldn't tackle with that.

 

[rdrancher]

As to the ammo: if those first two subsonics haven't solved the problem, the gun dials itself up to "extra crispy" and cuts loose some serious power. If I'm real lucky and firing from cover, goblins may think a second shooter has joined the party on my side, as I guarantee the sound profile will be "different". Read that as "who the %$#^% set off a howitzer!?"

Man I love "extra crispy"!

Back at the thread...

I shoot a full size 1911 better than anything else, hands down, and carried one for years. In fact, up until a year-and-a-half ago I was a semi-auto only kind of guy. What do I carry now? A Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum or a J-frame size .38 special. Why? I have fibromyalgia and arthritis, and packing a full-size anymore just plain hurts. Size and comfort matter to me. Why not carry a lightweight semi-auto? I can't trust my hands to efficiently clear a jam, and I don't want to worry about it.

Give me a for-sure wheelie any day...and of course, a Mossberg 500 12 gauge behind the seat.

rd

 

[LeonCarr]

IMO unless you make a habit of picking fights with motorcycle gangs, revolvers have handled and will handle every self defense situation. Talk to just about any retired police officer who carried a .357 revolver on duty. In most cases if they had to use it, it was a two hit fight. The bullet hit the bad guy and the bad guy hit the ground. Highway patrolman will tell stories about shooting armed bank robbers out on the road from 75, 90, 100 yards away, and hitting them with the first shot. Those were the days when the qualification course was the National Police Course, 60 rounds, and 24 of those 60 rounds were shot at 50 yards. Most officers were better shots back then I think, and gunfights involving 49-50 rounds were unheard of.

Nothing wrong with a wheelgun. As mentioned, the .357 with 125 grain JHPs is still considered the Sword Excalibur of handguns.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[S&W620]

Revolvers for defense? Yeah, they're ok

Anyone who disagree would probably change their mind if they were on the business end of 8 rounds of 125 gr JHP's.

If you can hit what you need to nothing else really matters. Vital organs and the CNS don't care whether the bullet was expelled out of an autoloader or revolver.

 

[jaydubya]

In the SD/HD situation I practice at the range weekly, I am a better shot with my five-round 637 Airweight than with my seven-round 686+. And I am a better shot with my 686+ than with my 14-shot Browning Hi Power.

Is there a moral here? Oh yeah: the more rounds you have the sloppier you get with them. Which is why I load just five rounds in any of them when I practice.
Cordially, Jack

 

[florida1098]

First let me say, I hope no one has to prove any theory or belief on this thread and we all stay safe. I was actually a Sgt in nyc and after 9/11 was thrown a bone and became a Training Sgt due to response at 911. Anyway, my duties now included matching the registered guns of cops in my command to what our teletype had on record. The vast majority had an model 10 or 64 and centennial or bodyguard. When we switched to Glocks, I didnt because I loved my Smith, many cops now had 3 guns due to the fact in NYC there were so many retires at once gunshops would only pay $25 for a model 10and we just threw them in our lockers. However at the time there were some cops with 10, 20, or more guns. I personally thought there was something not correct there about these Officers, but I am of the school, "to each their own". When I retired I left all 3 of my guns in my locker and never went back. They are probably still there 3 yrs later. Never thought I would work again, never wanted to carry another gun. I learned "never to say never." Now, after working in a gun friendly state, and seeing some of the gentlemen ( used extremely liberally) in gun stores and what they are carrying, and after reading these sites I never knew existed, my thoughts did a one hundred percent turn around. I would rather have a 5 shot J frame than nothing. I would prefer a 6 shot 357 N fram on top of that. But, in a combat defensive situation, protecting family in a restaurant, or people on the street, the more rounds available, the quicker reload and the easier trigger pull would only lead me to a semi, ( for me nothing but Glock). Almost every encounter where I drew involved multiple bad guys. Most men ( bad guys) from my experience do not act alone. they are not strong enough .The gang mentality of two or more is prevalent now. Actually our very own armed forces are breeding young gang members that take military training and then when back on civilian streets use that knowledge to become some of the most vicious gang members and leaders around especially true in southern Florida. So I guess what I really am saying is I love revolvers, they still have a place, just from what I am seeing in today's world I myself will try to meet fire with fire and carry and use in a defensive threat situation a semi-auto Glock 45 or 40. I will never forget when one of our cops with his female partner emptied his revolver on a perp in a basement, tried to reload, and the skell walked up on him and shot him in the head while his partner froze and stared.