Is the revolver really a practical defensive weapon?

[Slamfire]

But assuming that size was not an issue,

If size were not an issue I would be packing a 20 mm Vulcan chain gun. If they would not let me play with that, I sure as heck would not be carrying a hand gun, I would be carrying a M1a/FAL/HK 91.

Of course size is an issue. And 38 SPL snubbies, or the 44 Spl Charter Arms Bulldog. are extremely compact platforms. It is hard to beat the power/weight ratio of a revolver. However, when you get above the size of concealables, I would go with whatever is reliable and carries the most bullets.

But, I ain't looking for a fight, so a revolver does 99% of what I want.

 

[mavracer]

Why would a full size revolver ever make sense over an automatic?

yes, mom is 70 has arthritis and can't rack a slide on most automatics.

 

[DougDubya]

Size not an issue?

If you can conceal a 1911, you can conceal a 4" K-frame.

Hell, Mas Ayoob is FAR skinnier than me, but about the same height, and an untucked polo shirt and cargo shorts hide a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum Mountain gun.

 

[DougDubya]

Dave Arnold died? I used to love his articles.

 

[StrikeFire83]

I think its all pretty relative. Is a revolver a practical self defense weapon? Yes, for many people, but nor really for me. I don't shoot them that well.

Let me illustrate. This is what usually happens when I point-shoot an XD-45 Compact, fast fire at 7 yards. This is simply clearing leather, emptying gun, putting in another mag, and emptying that one as fast as possible.



I'm no marksman, but I'm more than satisfied with those groups for combat accuracy.


Now take my Ruger SP 357, shooting 38s mind you, this is what I could do under the same circumstances firing significantly SLOWER.



I think the pics illustrate that, for some of us, a good semi is a much more "practical" self defense weapon.

Just my two cents. Ironically, even though I don't shoot it that well, I could never get rid of the Ruger, because the .357/.38 special is just too plentiful NOT to have a gun for it. And it's fun to shoot, even if I suck at it.

 

[WHW]

Quote:
First let me say, I hope no one has to prove any theory or belief on this thread and we all stay safe. I was actually a Sgt in nyc and after 9/11 was thrown a bone and became a Training Sgt due to response at 911. Anyway, my duties now included matching the registered guns of cops in my command to what our teletype had on record. The vast majority had an model 10 or 64 and centennial or bodyguard. When we switched to Glocks, I didnt because I loved my Smith, many cops now had 3 guns due to the fact in NYC there were so many retires at once gunshops would only pay $25 for a model 10and we just threw them in our lockers. However at the time there were some cops with 10, 20, or more guns. I personally thought there was something not correct there about these Officers, but I am of the school, "to each their own". When I retired I left all 3 of my guns in my locker and never went back. They are probably still there 3 yrs later. Never thought I would work again, never wanted to carry another gun. I learned "never to say never." Now, after working in a gun friendly state, and seeing some of the gentlemen ( used extremely liberally) in gun stores and what they are carrying, and after reading these sites I never knew existed, my thoughts did a one hundred percent turn around. I would rather have a 5 shot J frame than nothing. I would prefer a 6 shot 357 N fram on top of that. But, in a combat defensive situation, protecting family in a restaurant, or people on the street, the more rounds available, the quicker reload and the easier trigger pull would only lead me to a semi, ( for me nothing but Glock). Almost every encounter where I drew involved multiple bad guys. Most men ( bad guys) from my experience do not act alone. they are not strong enough .The gang mentality of two or more is prevalent now. Actually our very own armed forces are breeding young gang members that take military training and then when back on civilian streets use that knowledge to become some of the most vicious gang members and leaders around especially true in southern Florida. So I guess what I really am saying is I love revolvers, they still have a place, just from what I am seeing in today's world I myself will try to meet fire with fire and carry and use in a defensive threat situation a semi-auto Glock 45 or 40. I will never forget when one of our cops with his female partner emptied his revolver on a perp in a basement, tried to reload, and the skell walked up on him and shot him in the head while his partner froze and stared.

Thanks to Florida1098 for his views. I want to feel good about carrying a revolver, but a semi-auto seems to be the smart bet.
whw

 

[AStone]

Subscribed, and sitting in camp with Cosmo, A'Bear, Jad, J. March & RD.

Best line of the thread so far:

When ever anyone asks me if 6 rounds are too few, I just tell them that if thats what they are worried about
then they should invest in something bigger than a handgun or change their address.

 

[Hawk]

"Revolver as defensive weapon" is a different animal from "Revolver vs. Semiauto" in that at least one advantage often cited for revolvers in the "vs. Semi" threads is cheerfully heaved over the gunwales in the context of "defensive weapon" - that being the generally nice single action trigger.

I gather that double action revolvers in a defensive context are to be fired double action, practiced with in that manner and possibly converted to DAO. My double-action-fu remains weak and I suspect I'm not alone. While working on improving it is enjoyable, at some point I'm going to have to seriously consider that, at my age, proficiency simply may not ever come.

As many have noted, it's going to come down to what one is proficient with.

 

[Checkmate]

DougDubya: Yes, Dave Arnold passed away in 2004.

 

[2ndamd]

Strikefire83:
Good to see you are leaving "occupied" territory (PRC)

Looking at thos two pictures leads me to see that either gun would be a fine choice for you to use.

That second target looks as "stopped" as the first. This isn't bullseye shooting with how many "X"s and points tallied up at the end. It is "last man standing."

ps Good shooting. I like to practice point shooting quite a bit myself.

 

[StrikeFire83]

Strikefire83:
Good to see you are leaving "occupied" territory (PRC)

Looking at thos two pictures leads me to see that either gun would be a fine choice for you to use.

That second target looks as "stopped" as the first. This isn't bullseye shooting with how many "X"s and points tallied up at the end. It is "last man standing."

ps Good shooting. I like to practice point shooting quite a bit myself.

Thanks. Yeah, I came out here for work...and the truth of the matter is I hate Los Angeles and California so much no job could overcome that.

I realize the revolver shooting inst horrible, but keep in mind this is pretty deliberate "cycled fire" letting off a shot double action about every 2 seconds. When you take into account that reflex action degrades in a gunfight, I have to go with the platform I'm best at.

Plus, 10 rounds of 45 ACP with two 13 round reloads at my side doesn't hurt matters, either.

 

[romeo212000]

the revolver is good because if the gun doesn't go bang you just pull the trigger again. I am going to get a revolver for my wife for that reason. I dont want her to have to worry about any malfunctions that may occur with a semi-auto.

 

[oneiron]

I keep a revolver for one reason only: you don't have to pull the slide to go to battery. My wife can pick it up and pull the trigger period.
Then again, while I was on the force during a period of broken service. there was a case of a lady who shot the privates off a guy through a widow he was trying to get in. Go figure.

 

[MagnumDweeb]

Another important point is caliber, are you using a 9mm with JHP 124grains that'll hit a 7 yard target at 1000+ or are you using a .44 Magunm 4" with JHP 180 grains that'll hit a target at 1200fps+ at seven yards. To be quite honest I generally carry two guns depending on my clothes. I'm going out to dinner with the fiancee I'm packing my P11 Kel Tec for pocket carry (that my fiancee loves to shoot and does so quite well out to fifteen yards) and I waist carry a Taurus M44C 4" .44 Magnum. If I'm out and about just running errands and such I pocket carry a Rossi Snubby .357 (that I carry .357 in) and I'm waist carrying a Ruger P90 .45 ACP. Mind you this allows me the ability to draw on each hand.

I'm a revolver fan sure enough and shoot them alot better. I like to doubletap at the range (2 shots one second or close to it) and oddly enough I can make the .44 Magnum connect on a playing card a lot more easily than my Ruger P90 (I think because of the slide coming back and I tend to overcompensate my grip for some reason). Admittedly I can keep a quad tap on my playing cards with my kel-tec a lot more easily than I can keep my snubby .357 which I can only usually milk for a tripple tap reliably. Mind you I double tap at ten yards. Everyone kind of has to find their own as I see it but I'm of the opinion that in a good self-defense shoot, the first two shots should decide the fight, if the attacker keeps coming you keep shooting.

 

[45Guy]

I like the fact that if I am answering the door, and someone forces it open, I can stick the gun against them or the door, and it can't be pushed out of battery. Plus, the prosecution can't really say you're a Rambo, since you have a "old man's gun" with 5,6 or maybe 7 or 8 rounds in it.

Personally, I think they look classy, and they've worked for the past few hundred years, so they should well enough now.

 

[Zoogster]

What you like is most important.
As ArmedBear said your shots matter less the higher the round count.

A quick comparison as it relates:

A semi-auto has clear capacity advantages.
A semi takes a supressor better, but supressors are restricted in this country anyways, and not used for carry.
A semi is faster to reload (you don't usualy reload in one on one encounters) if you need to.
A semi is usualy chambered in loadings that are good enough for 2 legged predators, while holding more shots.

A revolver is more reliable, many designs can take more abuse and still fire than a semi. Rain, sweat, rugged conditions, perhaps similar conditions many days or weeks between uses of the firearm. I would trust a revolver more to go bang in such situations when I needed it after taking that abuse.

Get sand or mud on the gun? Wouldn't want it with any firearm, but it would be much easier to remove it from the important parts of a revolver than a semi auto in the field.

Revolvers also tend to be built more robust, often well beyond the needs of the caliber for which they are chambered. Some semis cant even handle the upper levels for cartridges for which they are chambered.
So revolvers are generaly stronger firearms.
For that same reason if you use one as a club for some reason it is much less likely to be damaged.

Revolvers can be fired better from a pocket, though the cylinder gap is something to be concerned about. The cylinder cycling takes a lot less room to operate than the entire slide of a semi. A semi in the same situation will usualy fire once, then need to be manualy cycled.

Revolvers can also be chambered much easier in very powerful cartridges. Few semis approach the power of a big bore revolver, and those that do are often twice the size, and often batter themselves to death if firing wildcats.

The axis you aim along also does not shift in a revolver, meaning very long distance shots have more potentialy from a revolver (a role handguns are not in often.)

If the number of rounds you can have is limited by legislation to something close to a revolver capacity anyways, you can just carry a handful of rounds in something very powerful, instead of a similar number of wimpy auto rounds.
Through ammo type you can always put more power to use even for defense against 2 legged predators, fragmention into multiple smaller projectiles with more suitable energy and less penetration, rapid expansion etc


So I think a revolver has many benefits over a semi for certain situations or uses, and in certain climates and conditions.
I would rather carry a revolver in some of them.

 

[watchtower7]

There is a movie out now, "In Bruges", with Colin Farrell, a crime/comedy flick.
I won't ruin the movie by exposing the plot, but someone does a dive off a medeival church and crashes to the street below. He manages to survive long enough to tell his friend to take his gun, but unfortunately it is an automatic and the spring is hanging out, the gun crushed by the fall.
The guy runs back to his hotel room and takes out a "girly revolver".
So if you are planning to dive off high places better carry a revolver.

 

[Confederate]

Great post, Zoogster. You said, "Revolvers can be fired better from a pocket, though the cylinder gap is something to be concerned about. The cylinder cycling takes a lot less room to operate than the entire slide of a semi. A semi in the same situation will usualy fire once, then need to be manualy cycled."

True, but shooting inside a pocket also can ignite one's coat and clothing, especially with a snubby magnum. It's probably something that should be avoided.

One other aspect of this situation is the user. You buy two handguns, an autoloader and a revolver. Which of the two is likeliest to work flawlessly out of the box? A revolver. Often autos have to be broken in, especially if they're 1911-designs. You're normally obligated to go to the range and shoot at least 200 rounds of the kind of ammunition you're going to be using in your defense gun, which can be awfully costly for high-quality JHPs these days.

Second, you put an autoloader in your drawer for two years with a round up the snoot. Is it going to fire as reliably as it would have when you first cleaned it and loaded it? In most cases, no. Spring fatigue and lint are more problematic in long term storage than a revolver. I can pick up a revolver that's been loaded for five years, and unless I've used some lubricant with wax in it, it's going to be as reliable as the day it was loaded.

I had a friend who was actually saved because an autoloader failed to function. He was fourteen years old at the time and his brother 12. Not knowing it was loaded, he pointed it at his brother, pulled the slide back and released it. Fortunately the round jammed going into the chamber. Neither child knew how to disengage it and their father found the jammed gun later and extracted a confession. The gun was not supposed to have been loaded, but it was. And both of the kids had fired the gun out in the country, so they knew essentially how to use it. (The youngest of the two later took me out to an old dump and let me shoot his Llama 9mm pistol. And that's what got me interested in guns.)

Anyway, just thought I'd add those considerations, as I'm convinced that without intervention, a revolver will remain reliable for years, whilst an autoloader will grow less reliable all things considered.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I like the fact that if I am answering the door, and someone forces it open, I can stick the gun against them or the door, and it can't be pushed out of battery.

If you think someone is liable to force the door open, don't open it!!

And in any case, have a chain and a wedge in place.

 

[Baba Louie]

As I get older I find that I dislike leaving empty brass all around the scene of a shooting...

Call me old fashioned, but neat.

Should I ever be forced into taking on a horde of mutant ninja zombie bikers on crack, I'll probably rethink my decision... and switch from a J-frame to one of those newfangled 327/627 8 shot wonders, lock and all... cause I hate leaving brass lying around, ya know?

(disclaimer... no offense meant to members of a horde, mutants, ninjas, zombies or bikers, but I can do without tweakers)

 

[Guillermo]

Baba Louie.

Excellent point about the spent brass.

 

[45Guy]

Verm, that was more of an example of why I like the revolver. There's NO WAY I would open the door in that instance. Not to mention, I think it'd be pretty hard to say it was SD when you opened a locked door to an intruder.

 

[oneiron]

There is one disadvantage with the revolver, and that is close in if the perp get his hand around the cylinder you can not fire the revolver, however you can fire a semiautomatic pistol.

 

[DawgFvr]

oneiron...I always thought that idea was pretty funny. Have you ever attempted to stop a revovler cylinder from turning using your hands? Personally, I can cause more damage with my GP100 at close proximity (pistol whipping) than firing 125 grain rounds at 25 yards.

 

[jad0110]

There is one disadvantage with the revolver, and that is close in if the perp get his hand around the cylinder you can not fire the revolver, however you can fire a semiautomatic pistol.

If that happens, hopefully one would have the presence of mind to rotate the gun in the opposite direction of cylinder travel while pulling the trigger. That should do it .

A semi automatic can be pushed out of battery so that it cannot fire. It doesn't take much at all, perhaps 1/8" on my 1911. I suppose one counter would be to pull the gun away to allow the slide to go back into battery, if possible.

In either case ... the solution is much easier said than done.

Personally, I can cause more damage with my GP100 at close proximity (pistol whipping) than firing 125 grain rounds at 25 yards.

I don't doubt it ! Gotta give a revolver that ... your GP (like my 686) would make great war clubs if they crapped out in a fight!