Is the Saiga the best I'm going to get?

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DReicht

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I'm looking to start buying tactical rifles since I already have plans for a M1 Garand, Mosin, Savage 22 and a CZ 308. I don't want to start off buying a 1500 AR-15 and the Saiga just felt great when I shouldered it. 223 is where I'm starting out and then move up to an FAL or maybe the AR I'm not sure.

Saiga 223s don't have the best record for accuracy though but I think its a good entry level gun. Its no SHTF rifle but is there anything better for a similar price? Saigas are good, but being a student and the previous guns I have on hold, I have to watch my budget :uhoh:
 
Saiga 223s don't have the best record for accuracy
Not true - they are considered among the most accurate AK variants available. .223 moreso because the barrel is stiffer.
 
Really? I've been hearing quite a bit from both sides on this. Is there anyway I can check the Saiga's around here for good accuracy besides shooting them. Just the regular method or are the EAAs better than the RAAs or what?
 
Its no SHTF rifle but is there anything better for a similar price?

Huh? Why isn't it a SHTF rifle? They’re easily modified to use 35 round mags, super reliable, accurate enough, and they're inexpensive.

IMO, there isn't anything better for a similar price. You'd be well served by a .223, or 7.62 Saiga for your stated purpose and budget.
 
Go to the http://forum.saiga-12.com/ and chat with the lads. There is a .223 forum. By the way, I have a .223 Saiga and it is very accurate and obviously reliable and durable. THe only downside is the expense of high-capacity magazines. But there are work-arounds.
 
A standard AK will be combat accurate, use standard AK mags with no modification, and the 7.62x39mm ammo is also cheaper. I've also read good things about the Kel-Tec SU-16 carbines. The advantages to the SU-16 are the integral picatinny rail for optics plus the fact that they use cheap & plentiful AR-15/M-16 magazines.
 
Its no SHTF rifle but is there anything better for a similar price?

I don't want to start another "SHTF" rifle thread, but I'm wondering what would exclude this or ANY rifle from this category.

Practically anything you learn to use well and take care of will take care of you. A intergral pictinny rail system, or the host of other things that we do to rifles is not NECESSARY to handle a SHTF situation.

I weathered 8 weeks of "SHTF" during Katrina, and I kept a Romanian AK-47 (SAR-1) and a Glock 19 9mm with me. The AK I used had standard wooded stocks, and had NO rails or such. I lived.

In fairness, if you are talking about SHTF as a home invasion type thing, I can see more need for rails. I have a flashlight on a $20 universal rail mount that sits on my Vector AK underfolder in case I need to go check out something that goes bump in the night. But this is hardly an integrated or massively expensive forearm replacement.


As far as some of the questions that were raised: EAA and RAA saigas do have some subtle differences due to the years that they were imported. None of the differences are going to significantly matter. EAA and RAA are simply the importers that brought the saigas into the country during two periods of time. RAA is the current importer.


It's true that unmodifyed Saigas will use proprietary magazines. However, on the 7.62x39 and 223 models, they can take regular AK magazines or Galil/orelite magazines respectively with the installation of a simple feed ramp. In the 308 model FYI, you'd be better off just using the FBMG 20 round proprietary magazines. HOWEVER, if you use a high capacity magazine in an unconverted Saiga, you are about to run afoul with ATF and section 922 regulations.

Conversions can be done for about 100 dollars if you are willing to do the work yourself. It isn't hard at all if that appeals to you.

I can't speak for the accuracy of the 223 or 7.62x39 rifles, but my converted Saiga 308 is doing 1.0-1.5 MOA all day long with the 16" barrel. However, it is generally accepted that some of the most accurate AK varients, as mentioned previously, will be the Saigas. You may be able to squeeze a bit more accuracy out of a milled reciever AK, but then you are really talking about getting into some money.


All in all, if you are just wanting a cheap high capacity rifle where you are looking to hang a lot of things on it, you'd probably be better off buying a WASR AK-47 and buying the accessories as you can afford them piecemeal. They are cheap, solid rifles that will fulfill a function. It would not be in 223, but in a SHTF rifle, caliber isn't going to save you either. I personally have chosen 7.62x39 and 308 as my rifle combination for preparation.

Going the Saiga route has advantages and disadvantages. You are able to get the stock rifle even cheaper than you can get a WASR. However, in converting it, you need to add $100 dollars in materials if you do it yourself. Add about $300 dollars if you want to buy one pre-converted. In the end, however, you will have a top of the line AK rifle.


John
 
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the saigas are , in my opinion , not only the most accurate AK, but will give other semi's and bolties a run for their money, if you tweek them just a bit. my 223, 308, and 762.39 are all moa, thats right, even the .39. The 223 is so accurate, it is moa with SEVERAL diff milsurp 223 rounds, I don't even bother to scope it any more. Using several diff boxes of milsurp ammo, I put a 5 inch diameter bull at 100 yds. the ammo I stuff into mags very ramdomly, until I filled mags up with 100 rounds. I then, with open sites, fired one round per about 5 to 10 seconds per shot. I proceeded to hit that bull, 96 out of 100 shots. That kind of shooting, with no break in the string, and bbl heating up, shows great skill , in the bbl making processes of these bbls, and I won't ever sell these babies.
 
My Saiga 39 is accurate enough for me to shoot pieces of busted clay birds at 100 yards with a cheap BSA red dot site. It puts my m-30 and SKS to shame on accuracy.
RJ
 
DReicht,

I've never even held a Saiga - so I can not comment on that, but maybe keep in the mix the Ruger Mini-14. They are not as accurate as an AR-15. But a muzzle break, and synthetic stock help a great deal.

I have shot an AR-15 (Bushmaster). They are a nice rifle - no question. But, for myself I could not justify the big bucks for an AR-15. The Ruger was a good option for me.

Good luck,

- w
 
+1 for the mini 14. I have a romanian wasr-2 in 5.45x39 and it shoots OK...but a buddy of mine has a mini-14 that is a tack driver. we switch guns and both of us shoot alot better with the ruger. Mind you the wasr is fine as far as combat accuracy goes but the mini 14 is one hell of a shooter.
 
Until I can afford an FAL, AR, or PTR it seems like Saiga is it. Lets hope the S doesn't hit the F till then :-\

Thanks for the help!
 
DR, I own an NFA gunstore. I have access to pretty much anything you can think of, up to and including belt fed machine guns.

That said, if all I had access to was a basic Saiga, honestly I would feel just fine.
 
but knowing the belt fed is there sure helps i bet ;)

seriously though. iv spent alot of time with a .223 saiga and i dont for a second believe theres a finer made AK patern for the money. throw in the fact its available in .223 so good QUALITY AMMUNITION is readily available. its up to the task of SHTF rifle
 
Hoppy, that said, my personal end of the world rifle/optic/light/accesories combo costs about $2,700.

But if all I had was a $290 Saiga, I could do about most of what I could do with my main gun, I just couldn't do it with as much style. :D
 
if the shtf,your stealth and fieldcraft will be more valuable than the rifle. if the s really does htf,you will be able to up gun soon enough.
 
Until I can afford an FAL, AR, or PTR it seems like Saiga is it. Lets hope the S doesn't hit the F till then :-\


I think what most people here are trying to say is that you can do a LOT worse than a Saiga. It honestly sounds like like you have bile coming up in your throat as you are considering the rifle. If I felt that way about a rifle, I'd just save my money can get something else.

You could do a lot worse than a saiga-- some of us actually CHOOSE them when they have many more options available to them.


Good luck.

John
 
No no not at all I really like the Saiga I've just heard that there are problems with and if the SHTF I want someone that I can rely on. Now though I'm being told that the Saiga is a fine rifle and from its fan base, that seems to be the more likely truth.
 
Honestly, I really liked the Saiga I held. The only reason I didn't buy one was b/c of the added cost of converting it to PG & double stack mag well (since I don't have the necessary tools). Sounds silly, maybe, but I wanted a double stack, PG AK variant for SHTF scenarios that was already ready to rock & roll without my doing anything to it. I ended up with a WASR 10 with the Tapco G2 trigger, and I couldn't be happier with it.

In all honesty, for a SHTF scenario, sub-MOA accuracy doesn't seem all that plausible to me. Sure, it's nice to have a rifle that will do that, but I wouldn't select an AK variant to fill that role as my first choice.

Just my $.02
 
Juna,

I hear ya. I bought my 308 pre-converted because I was scared to try. Now, I think I am up to the challenge.

In the next month or so, I am going to be purchasing a 7.62x39 Saiga and attempting the conversion myself. Wish me luck! If it goes smooth, my plan is to do a 223 after that and do the 223 as a Galil clone just for fun.

Yes, I am nervous LOL


John
 
I've been looking into the saiga's a lot lately and actually JWarren has been a lot of help. I actually think i like the way they look standard, so maybe i'll just add a scope and not go for a folding stock or anything like that just yet. I hope to get one in .308 so that i can use it for possible hunting and also a SHTF situation.
 
Thanks Mike :)

You'll enjoy that. If you leave it unconverted, don't be tempted to throw a 20 round magazine it it, or the ATF will not be your friends. To me, that is the biggest benefit to converting. The other is that you will be able to put in a better trigger than the stock one. I've heard on the Saiga boards that the Tapco G2 trigger is better than the stock one. Even better is the Red Star Armory adjustable trigger. I've got the tapco one in mine, but I think I may put a Red Star one in my 308 before next deer season.

Primarily because I can use the Tapco one in another conversion-- that and also because I can't quit messing with rifles-- even when they work fine. It's a sickness. :/


John
 
I'm not equipped to do a self-conversion and I would have to have someone else do it though.
 
I would be interested to hear who is saying that it is inaccurate and otherwise problematic, since that is 180 degrees from the truth.
 
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