Is the U.S. sharing CCW info with foreign nations?

[guyfromohio]

I'm curious.... My wife (has Ohio CHL) took the kids to Canada this week to see Niagara Falls. At the boarder, she was asked if she had any weapons or tobacco. Typical question. She answered truthfully to the negative. He took the passports and scanned them. As soon as he scanned hers, his demeanor changed and he abruptly asked if she was carrying HER weapon? Then he continued his barrage.... "Where is it?" "Why do you need it?" "If I searched your car, you're telling me that I won't find a gun or any ammo?" Knowing that we removed everything before she left, she answered emphatically that he would not, so he let her pass.

Why would scanning the passport trigger that response? Why would a federal document even be linked to an Ohio CHL? Or maybe he's psychic? Seems odd.... Thoughts?

 

[MErl]

Has the Ohio list ever been published? You can bet once that happens every gov agency in the world stores a copy.

 

[Torian]

Very interesting stuff, and disturbing if true.

If you recall, not long ago, the state of Missouri was caught sharing CHL data with the feds, even though Missouri state law specific forbid it. The reasons they were sharing were even more disturbing as later discovered.

It wouldn't be hard to fathom the current administration sharing similar data outside our borders. I could see this as being part of the recent push at the United Nations to control civilian weaponry (small arms) at the border.

Everything this administration had said and done thus far indicates they don't feel gun owners are a protected class of individuals.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I know some states link it to the DL, so even if you don't show your permit, it will pop up when the cop runs your drivers licence.

 

[guyfromohio]

It's just odd. The entire demeanor changed when he scanned the passport. Maybe just part of his shtick.... Who knows...


Shadow.... Definately linked to the DL and the license plate. But it was the passport that he was checking.

I understand an Ohio cop running a plate and finding your CHL. I'm even somewhat ok with another state's cop finding it when running the plate (not thrilled with the idea), but another country havering access to that information would be absolutely unacceptable under all circumstances.

 

[glennv]

Ahh the only good reason to live in RI. Permits issued by towns and cities are not part of any database. Just sits in a folder somewhere. Government ineptitude actually working to my advantage.

 

[Old Fuff]

I haven't crossed an international border in years, even though I live next to one. But I wouldn't be surprised if my CWL information was included somewhere in my passport, if for no other reason but that it's in my drivers license. Between the various government agencies databases are freely shared.

You're lucky they didn't pull the car down into little pieces.

 

[guyfromohio]

Fuff.... Wife would not have made that a pleasant experience. However, I did remove everything from my car, before she took it. I believe her firm answers were what avoided it.

 

[Slamfire]

You know, I would not doubt it. We just don't know what information our Government is giving to foreign countries, and if the corporations who create these databases are selling this information.

Of course, Chinese hackers have everything in our Government databases, so maybe the Canadians bought it from China.

 

[X-Rap]

I'm pretty sure that if it is typed into a keyboard or scanned that it is open for the gov to compile and share as they wish. The fact that data was recorded really isn't a shocker for me, its the ability they have to sort it out and make something of it all that shocks me.

 

[guyfromohio]

But to a foreign country?

 

[bthest86]

Border agents will often do aggressive questioning like that so they can study your responses. Pretty typical, at least for USCBP.

Doing it after they punch in your info is just another tactic I suppose. If you are breaking the law then they want you to think that they got you pegged so you'll fess up or at least give them something to go on. Nothing unusual really, at least from my experience.

 

[guyfromohio]

Bthest.... That would make sense. I'm sure if I didn't have the "I have removed everything, even the speed loader in the change jar" conversation, my wife's response may have been less forceful...."I think" or "should". My hope is that you are correct.

 

[M-Cameron]

Border agents will often do aggressive questioning like that so they can study your responses. Pretty typical, at least for USCBP.

Doing it after they punch in your info is just another tactic I suppose. If you are breaking the law then they want you to think that they got you pegged so you'll fess up or at least give them something to go on. Nothing unusual really, at least from my experience.

I used to work in security( not the same as border patrol, but the same tricks and tactic are used in both)and I am going to guess this is the most likely answer....because it sounds exactly like something I would have done.


Their entire plan is to make you think they know more than they actually do, and its actually pretty easy to pull off, especially in the computer age....hell, if CVS can recall my purchases from 6 month ago, then That border patrol guy must know my entire history, right?....eh, probably not. He probably doesn't know much more than what's printed in your passport.

Humans can spew lies all day, but their bodies do a terrible job at hiding it, and police/ border patrol are really good at Reading body language an they know just the questions to ask and how to ask the to provoke a response.

 

[guyfromohio]

I bet you are 100% correct.

 

[mbopp]

I used to live in Buffalo. After I got my NY permit I started getting asked about firearms when I went into Canada. I was never questioned that hard, though.

 

[tomrkba]

Based upon your story, why do you have any doubt? How would they know to ask those questions?

 

[Old Fuff]

It may also be that when the passport was scaned the basic information on it allowed the computer to access different databases, one of which had the weapons permit listed on it. For example, one that was based on a person's driver license might have that clue. I know that mine does.

 

[rtroha]

Canada has access to Ohio's CHL info because it is linked to our driving records in LEADS.

From a Cleveland Plain Dealer article:

Agreements struck in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks have opened the border to a much freer flow of criminal-background information between Canadian and U.S. law enforcement. Now, police at the international border can access the same records available to cops at the Lakewood-Rocky River border -- including that years-old DUI.

Consequently, Canadian agents at airports, bridges and other crossings are routinely turning away Yanks for some offenses considered minor or ancient back home.

The Canadians and their American counterparts are using digital equipment that let them access criminal history through items such as license plates, passports and driver's licenses.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/12/canada_steps_up_criminal_backg.html

 

[Torian]

Canada has access to Ohio's CHL info because it is linked to our driving records in LEADS.

From a Cleveland Plain Dealer article:



http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/12/canada_steps_up_criminal_backg.html

I can understand sharing criminal history...but CHL info is not relevant. Next they are going to want to know your credit score. Such information should be restricted to authorized officials only within our border. Quite frankly, it is no business of any Canadian whether or not I own firearms or have a CHL.

 

[X-Rap]

[QUOTE]I can understand sharing criminal history...but CHL info is not relevant. Next they are going to want to know your credit score. Such information should be restricted to authorized officials only within our border. Quite frankly, it is no business of any Canadian whether or not I own firearms or have a CHL.[/QUOTE]

Then you can understand that in the eyes of many people and agencys we are criminals before the fact.

 

[Apuuli]

True, but it's just so much easier to share all the info linked to one's DL than to filter some of it. That would require extra effort, extra time, and burn tax dollars.

 

[40-82]

I traveled in Canada fairly extensively years before it was possible for a Virginia citizen to have a concealed weapons permit. Nearly every time I went through Canadian customs I heard remarks like "Virginia is wide open. It will be easier for you if you tell us about your hidden handguns now." They almost always searched. If I had concealed a handgun inside of my toothpaste tube, they would have found it.

 

[phil dirt]

Canada is just one of many places I will NEVER visit again. Others are California, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut etc etc. I absolutly refuse to spend one penny in those places, so I don't go. In fact, my own state of Washington could be on that list soon. Hopefully, Idaho will remain a freedom loving place for me to escape to.

 

[Torian]

True, but it's just so much easier to share all the info linked to one's DL than to filter some of it. That would require extra effort, extra time, and burn tax dollars.

I'm definitely not interested in what makes it easier for Federal agencies to share personal (what should be confidential) on law-abiding citizens to Canada.

What I do expect of them is their due diligence on protecting our privacy, whether it is the easiest course of action for them or not.