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Is there such a thing as a cheap bullpup?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Yelovitz_503, Oct 13, 2012.

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  1. Yelovitz_503

    Yelovitz_503 Member

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    I have for a long time been interested in bullpups. I like the AUG a lot, love the Israeli TAR and would love to try out a FAMAS. I'm not big on the SA80, or the Chinese ones.

    My question is, are any of these (TAR, AUG, FAMAS) made by companies other than their original manufacturer. Kind of like I'd love to have an M4 made by Colt, but just can't justify the price; now I'm wondering if there is a cheap but reliable alternative to any of these? I live in Oregon, but the majority of bullpup rifles comply with standard regs and wouldn't need a tax stamp (not sure if that would matter but I'm throwing it in there).

    If there is such a thing, and it's not a total piece of junk I'd like to know more about it. Also if anyone has owned the "official/original" versions of those rifles (semi, or full auto). I'd like to know more about the ease of maintenance, and how your experience was overall with that weapon?
     
  2. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    There was clone of the Steyr AUG made by Microtech Small Arms Research. They called their gun the STG 556. The company ran into financial difficulties and I believe they are out of business. From what I could gather at the end of their existence their seemed to be some quality control issues (likely a result of their financial issues).

    The MSAR STG 556 was still not a cheap gun ranging from $1400-1700.

    As to the others nothing to the best of my knowledge that you will ever get your hands on in the US.

    Word is, but we've heard it before, a civilian version of the Tavor is coming. We will see what the price is when it gets here.

    I can tell you I like the AUG. However, I don't think it's $2000 price tag is at all justified for what you are getting. For $1000 I'd probably buy another, but not $2k.
     
  3. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    Walther (not Ruger) has an inexpensive bullpup in .22lr. Aside from that, I don't know of anything else that is cheap. There are bullpup conversion stocks for various rifles and shotguns.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  4. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    Just prior to MSAR going bankrupt you could buy a brand new Stg556 for around $1,000. They went up a little bit since then because they started becoming scarce and there was the possibility of them becoming somewhat collectible as a result of them no longer being made.

    Fortunately MSAR is back in business producing firearms again and I'm seeing inexpensive ones on Gunbroker more often. There are a number of them starting for around $1,000 on there right now.

    The most inexpensive way to get into a bullpup is to probably look into a conversion kit for an AK.
    http://www.impactguns.com/ak-bullpup-parts-kit-ki1063.aspx

    Another option is to look for a Bushmaster M17S. They are no longer made but there are a lot of them out there and typically sell for under $1,000.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_M17S
     
  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Not any that work well.
     
  6. 56hawk

    56hawk Member

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    What kind of price range are you talking? The FS2000 and the new Steyr AUG A3 are kind of on the cheaper end since they are still being manufactured.

    I'd really like to get a FAMAS, but the last one I saw for sale was over $10,000.
     
  7. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    One of the big downsides of a bullpup to me is that it puts your face right next to the action in the event of a kaboom.
    In a traditional long gun when there is a problem the barrel splits well in front of the shooter, or the action fires out of battery or has brass give out and the pressure does some damage to the firearm well in front of the person. Sometimes they suffer some hand damage, and maybe minor injuries, occasionally something more serious if an item gets blown in just the wrong direction, but out there away from the body able to freely vent in almost all directions the firearm typically causes little to no harm to the person. It diffuses in many directions and drops in pressure quickly, and most directions will cause no harm so the odds favor the shooter.
    With a bullpup that is no longer the case. Many more directions the blast can go have tissue there, and the pressure is still much stronger that close. Shrapnel is much more likely to be well embedded in the face and torso and serious injuries more likely as a result.

    This would be an especially serious concern in a firearm like an AK that only has a dust cover between you and the action and a thin metal flat bent into the right shape as a receiver.
    Some manufacturers of factory bullpups address this issue and add reinforcements that would direct the blast. Others do not.

    If I was going to convert a firearm with a kit I would be sure to add some steel to appropriate areas to direct the blast away from my be insuring the path of least resistance was forward and/or to the side I wouldn't be on. Minimizing the amount of injury I would receive.
    This however is going to reduce how pretty the firearm is and will increase weight slightly. It would also require some personal modification beyond just attaching an aftermarket accessory.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
  8. gunnutery

    gunnutery Member

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    http://www.cbrps.com/

    If you want to get into bullpups for cheap, check out the above link. They have kits to bullpup SKS's, AKs, Mosin Nagants, Saigas etc.

    I'd like to try converting an AK with their kit.
     
  9. Swing

    Swing Member

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    This.
     
  10. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    When did this occur? I was unaware they were doing business again.

    All the bullpup conversion kit guns I've encountered are less than impressive and I like bullpups.

    If I simply wanted a bullpup of some sort and didn't want to pay too much I'd look at a walther G22.

    If I wanted a more substantial cartridge I'd look at the PS90, FS2000, (both around $1500) or an Aug (closer to $2k).

    EDIT *I see MSAR has a website up now. I also see they have stuff up about a 300 BLK. It makes sense with as easy as it is to change barrels. If the barrels are prices reasonably it would make sense to have a 5.56 and a 300 barrel.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  11. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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  12. 56hawk

    56hawk Member

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    I still think a Steyr AUG is cuter. :)
     
  13. Carne Frio

    Carne Frio Member

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  14. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    I've got a FS2000 that I picked up for ~$1700 off gunbroker.com

    It's a very well thought out design that's well made. Very compact and the ergonomics are very good. It's also easy to shoot from either shoulder w/o having to switch any parts.

    Mine is very accurate for a military pattern rifle. I have gotten 8 round groups under 2MOA using 55gr PMC, which isn't optimum for the 1:7 hardchromed barrel.

    BSW
     
  15. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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  16. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    Are any of their new guns available anywhere? I was searching around online and couldn't find them at any of the usual places I look. Do we know what price they are selling for, or will sell for? The website lists an MSRP of $1900+. That puts it WAY to close to the price of a Steyr unless it sales for much less. Previously, before the chapter 11, I found them for like $1400.
     
  17. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    I have a Walther G22 and it's pretty fun to shoot. Nice and compact. Reasonably accurate. Can't shoot it left-handed without a detail strip and reassembly into left-handed mode.
     
  18. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    Well, ironically right after I post the above I saw a local add for an "MSAR XM17 E4." The shop is asking $1,800 sans sights or optic. That's way too close to the price of an actual steyr. In fact the same place has an actual steyr for just over $1800. $1800 is also too close to the price of a good AR SBR for me. The E4 does take AR mags, but still. Before the MSAR ran into their problems they old versions (that took proprietary mags) were going for just under $1k.
     
  19. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    There are lots of MSAR's on gunbroker currently for under $1,500 and quite few for under $1,200. Granted most of them are being bidded on so who knows how much they will end up going for in the end.

    Hopefully as time goes by we'll see the cost of MSAR's drop to where it was prior to them going bankrupt. I would also hope that with the introduction of the Steyr Aug into the US market MSAR will be smart and offer their alternative at a better price to challenge the price of the Aug.
     
  20. gunnutery

    gunnutery Member

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    Just before MSAR went under, I was just warming up to them (and their price). However if their price is now $1800+, I'm going with my alternate choice of a FS2000 which is lowering in price as of late to $1500+ AND it's completely ambi ejection and controls.
     
  21. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    I would like to get trigger time with the FS2000. I have been happy and impressed by all the FN guns I have owned or used. I had an MSAR gun and sold it for more than I paid right before their prices dropped. I never was able to use it enough to really evaluate it. I did like it though and wouldn't mind having another one, not for $1800. Honestly it would need to be close to $1k at the most.

    If MSAR goes about their old business practices, prices at around $1700, less than stellar QC (if some online reports are to be believed), and poor customer service, I'm not sure how they think they will fare better than before. I'd like to see them succeed, so I hope they address at least the last two, but preferably all three.

    I hope they are counting on more than AR mags and very expensive (if their website is to be believed and the MSRPs are anywhere close to street price) 300 BLK barrels to set themselves apart from the real deal steyrs. I just cannot see them taking too big of a market share without being notably less expensive. I think those features (if the barrel is reasonably priced) would be enough to get me to give it a hard look vis-a-vis the steyr, but only if the price is right.
     
  22. mgregg85

    mgregg85 Member

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    Century has that hideous AK bullpup.
    [​IMG]

    That's about the cheapest I've seen in a rifle caliber.

    Kel-Tec makes the RFB, it runs at about $1100
    DSC09893.jpg
    Good luck finding one though.

    Too bad Kel-Tec never made the SUB-16
    rfb-sub16.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  23. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    We are about three years out from the "release" of this rifle. I'm still yet to see one in a gun shop. Further given the disproportionate number of reports online about problems, including serious one, for the extremely small number of guns released I'm not sure I'd buy one anyways. Its a cool design its just too bad they didn't simply sell it to someone that would build it well and actually had the capacity to do so.

    I do agree a Sub 16 would be a fun little gun if it was made half way decent and sold at more typical kel tec prices. I can swallow kel tec prices for kel tec quality. I'd never pay anywhere near what some folks did for their RFBs for any KT product I've gotten my hands on. Perhaps the RFB is built much better though. I have heard a few folks say it is not typical kel tec quality. Yet it still had pretty serious issues after its release.
     
  24. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    RFBs may cost about $1100 but good luck getting one to 'run'. My buddy had one. It went back twice for different problems. After he sold it the next owner suffered a broken gas block. Rifle had less 500 rounds thru it when that happened.

    BSW
     
  25. savage1r

    savage1r Member

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