I want to get a Remington 870 12 ga, but the local dealers around here are asking high prices and I can get them cheaper online. I am 18 and can legally purchase a shotgun in Ohio, but I don't have a credit card to order from the website. I could get my uncle to order it, have it shipped to the dealer, pay to transfer it over and then "sell" it to me in a written contract. I would just pay him the amount for the shotgun, shipping, and transfer so he wouldn't be making any money but he is "selling" the gun to me. Is this legal?
Is this legal?
- Thread starter Dynasty
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Car Knocker
Member
Most online dealers whose sites I've visited accept money orders, certified checks, personal checks with a 10-day hold, and usually give a cash discount for not using a credit card. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/payment.php is a prime example.
CountGlockula
Member
Can you just mail in a check or money order?
Hkmp5sd
Member
No, he can't. He would be performing what is called a "straw purchase."
However, there is nothing preventing you from borrowing the money to pay for it from your uncle. Your uncle can pay the out-of-state FFL for the gun. The out-of-state FFL can then ship the gun to your local dealer. At that point, you need to do the paperwork to take possession of the gun from your local FFL. You can then repay the loan to your uncle.
PS. Open a checking account and get a debit card. Most debit cards can be used as a credit card provided funds are in the account.
However, there is nothing preventing you from borrowing the money to pay for it from your uncle. Your uncle can pay the out-of-state FFL for the gun. The out-of-state FFL can then ship the gun to your local dealer. At that point, you need to do the paperwork to take possession of the gun from your local FFL. You can then repay the loan to your uncle.
PS. Open a checking account and get a debit card. Most debit cards can be used as a credit card provided funds are in the account.
+1 to getting a checking account.
You can use the debit card (and pay the typical +3% fee for instant gratification), or if you are willing to wait a few days, mail a check.
Post office money orders work too with (I believe) $1,000 limit per order and $10,000 limit per day.
You can use the debit card (and pay the typical +3% fee for instant gratification), or if you are willing to wait a few days, mail a check.
Post office money orders work too with (I believe) $1,000 limit per order and $10,000 limit per day.
mljdeckard
Member
It's only a staw purchase if the person you are giving the gun to is NOT legally allowed to own it.
Is there a reason you can't get a pre-paid credit card?
Is there a reason you can't get a pre-paid credit card?
Hkmp5sd
Member
Nope. If you are buying the gun for anyone other than yourself (except for gifts), you are doing a straw purchase.
MrPeter
Member
Have your uncle order it and have it shipped to your FFL. When you go there to pick up the 870 from your FFL, have them transfer it to you. You would probably want to have your uncle with you.
+1 on the checking account. Start building your credit NOW if you ever want to own a house or car before you're 30. Yes, having a checking account or not does effect your credit. I recommend going with a credit union rather than a bank.
+1 on the checking account. Start building your credit NOW if you ever want to own a house or car before you're 30. Yes, having a checking account or not does effect your credit. I recommend going with a credit union rather than a bank.
BamaHoosier
Member
I agree with MrPeter on this,plus apply for a debit card if your institution of choice offers one.Wish I had done that years ago!
Harry Paget Flashman
Member
Hkmp5sd. The ATF Form 4473 quote "Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?" you posted applies at the time of transfer for the weapon listed on that form. You can buy them over the Internet with a credit card all day long from a vendor and have them shipped to your FFL. When I buy milsurps I usually ask friends if they want one too and consolidate the order on one credit card purchase to minimize the S/H charges. When the guns come in we pick them up separately, having filled out the ATF Form 4473 separately to comply with the law. We settle up with who owes who what later. It's really no different from having the dealer purchase several guns for several people on one order using his credit card or you doing it, or one guy sending one money order for two guns for him and his friend. When we do a group buy like this we are all "the buyer", it's just that we are making a single payment. You're not getting the gun until all the Federal paperwork is filled out anyway. There's no illegal strawman issue as long as you answer question 12a honestly when you get your gun.
I am not a lawyer but do this all the time with my FFL who passes all his ATFBE audits. Never had a problem. If I'm wrong...then this post is a work of fiction.
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Oops! I re-read the OP's post. You are right Hkmp5sd. Sorry.
I am not a lawyer but do this all the time with my FFL who passes all his ATFBE audits. Never had a problem. If I'm wrong...then this post is a work of fiction.
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Oops! I re-read the OP's post. You are right Hkmp5sd. Sorry.
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clarence222
Member
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- May 12, 2006
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Guns over the net
You might want to ask the FFL holder before you do anything. Most of the dealers around here won't transfer anything that you bought from somewhere on the net, when they have the same model in stock.
Can't really blame them either.
You might want to ask the FFL holder before you do anything. Most of the dealers around here won't transfer anything that you bought from somewhere on the net, when they have the same model in stock.
Can't really blame them either.
doc2rn
Member
You can go to Walgreens and buy a prepaid visa and use that to conduct the transaction just like a money order.
Ask a lawyer IN YOUR STATE.
Second: Since the (sorry, I have not memorized the form number) form that you fill out to purchase a firearm asks SPECIFICALLY "Are you the actual buyer of this firearm?" your uncle would have to lie on a federal form to purchase it for you. Doesn't sound legal to me.
Second: Since the (sorry, I have not memorized the form number) form that you fill out to purchase a firearm asks SPECIFICALLY "Are you the actual buyer of this firearm?" your uncle would have to lie on a federal form to purchase it for you. Doesn't sound legal to me.
RNB65
Member
I would never advocate breaking the law. But some things are best done quietly and not discussed in a public forum. What happens in family stays in family. Nuff said.
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jrfoxx
Member
I think this is where people are getting confused and thinking its a straw purchase.The uncle isnt lieing on the 4473, because he isnt even filling one out, the nephew is, because its his gun, that he is buying.When the uncle simply tyes in his CC # online to to order the gun to be shipped to the local FFL, he isnt filling out a 4473, or any other BATFE/Govt form, whatsoever (so he isnt lying by saying he is not tha "actual buyer", as he isnt even being asked the question/ filling out the form).When the gun arrives at the local ffl, the nephew/OP fills out the 4473, thruthfully (because he IS the actual buyer, he IS NOT acquiring it for anyone else, he's acquiring it for himself, so he is answering the 4473 question honestly), and walks away with HIS gun.No lies on forms, no strw purchase, nada.Seems totally legit to me.Nobody lied on ANY forms, or to anyone at all for that matter, and the OP gets his gun.
That said, in this day and age, you really do almost need a debit/credit/something card to do most things with much convieniance at all, especially anything online, so I'd just get a bank account with a debit card to use anyway.
I don't understand the wording here. Has this ever been challenged? What does "on behalf" actually mean?
The way I see it, if the uncle can legally buy the gun, then he IS the actual buyer. What he does with the gun afterward is his business. He can shoot it, transfer it, give it as a gift or whatever, as long as it is legal. His actual intent at the time of the purchase is irrelevant, as long as the purchase is legal.
There's no way to prove or disprove intent - the only requirement is that the buyer be legally qualified to buy.
Food for discussion, not legal advice!
Harpo
Hkmp5sd
Member
I agree. Dynasty originally stated he wanted his uncle to pay for the shotgun with his credit card, go to the dealer and get the shotgun and once on the street, sell it to him in a face to face transfer. That is a straw purchase. The Uncle would be getting the gun with the intent of immediately selling it to another person.
Hkmp5sd
Member
It means you are purchasing this gun for someone else (other than for a gift). A person can go into a gun store, put the money down and purchase a firearm. If for some reason, you go into the store and get a gun for that person so that he doesn't have to do the transfer himself, you are doing a straw purchase.
No matter what the excuse, you cannot take someones place purchasing a firearm. The actual buyer/owner has to do the paperwork.
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