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Is this safe?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Steve H, Nov 23, 2006.

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  1. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    Is it considered safe to carry a Colt Mustang loaded (one in the chamber and 5 in the mag.) with the hammer "down" otherwise not cocked?
     
  2. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    YES! Thats how I carry all my single actions. I just don't feel safe carrying it "cocked and locked".
     
  3. Sidewinder6

    Sidewinder6 Member

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    Not 'safe'

    Sorry guys. I know if instances where someone sitting in a chair leaned back and faned the trigger carring that way. Blew a hole in his butt.
     
  4. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    I would think a good pocket holster would prevent this.
     
  5. Husker1911

    Husker1911 Member

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    To get the hammer down upon the live round, think about how you accomplish this feat. You must pull the trigger, and lower the hammer down. To fire the gun, you must first pull the hammer back. So in order to carry (and fire) with the hammer down upon a live round, you've got to do something dangerous not once, but twice. Wow.

    If you insist upon not utilizing Condition One (cocked and locked), for Pete's sake, carry it Condition Three (unchambered).

    http://www.sportshooter.com/gear/conditions1911.asp
     
  6. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    I don't think its very dangerous if you have experience. Also their is just something about handeling the hammer on the pistol that makes me feel good.:D
     
  7. SDC

    SDC Member

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    And there's just something about patching holes (in the wall, in the floor, in yourself) that just makes people feel good, too :rolleyes:
     
  8. Husker1911

    Husker1911 Member

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    Doubleleg, "I don't think its very dangerous if you have experience. Also their is just something about handeling the hammer on the pistol that makes me feel good."

    Wow.

    I've got faith in you, and believe you can respond better than this.

    Condition Two is illogical and unsafe.
     
  9. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    The Mustangs are series 80 pistols which are safe to carry hammer down on a chambered round.

    Getting the hammer down on a chambered round safely is another story. For what it's worth, the Mustang manual does not list this mode of carry as one of the three approved modes, nor does it contain a method for decocking the pistol with a round chambered.
     
  10. crucible

    crucible Member

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    Condition 2 is inherently unsafe in single actions-with the risk coming from either the loading process in weapons that have FPS, or doubly so with the loading process and the carrying of the weapon afterwards in weapons that don't have a FPS. If one hasn't had an ND and uses this process, it's simply because it hasn't happened yet-all it takes as a bump on the hammer, or a bit of oil on one's thumb when loading, or a number of others seemingly small variables that Murphy loves so dearly.

    Another thing to think of: I also submit that with practice a condition 3 carried weapon is employed faster upon the draw too as it's considerably faster to slingshot the entire slide to chamber a round and cock the hammer in the same action than manipulating a tiny hammer under considerable stress.

    One purposefully and unneccessarily risks an ND to carry in this manner-why do it if other methods of employing the weapon can not only be safer, but faster too?

    FWIW.

    C-
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Cocked & Locked Unloading

    I never lower a hammer onto a live round. I drop the mag and rack the slide with my hand catching the ejected round. Some hammers are too easy to let go of and it won't always catch on the 1/2 cock, safe postion. Try it without a round in if you don't like your nice trigger job. I try to avoid ever catching the sear in the 1/2 cock notch for fear of damage even with the hammers that are supposed to stop this.
     
  12. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    What does FPS and NG stand for in the post above? Does this site have a list of what all the initials stand for?
     
  13. KenRocks

    KenRocks Member

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    I dont know FPS...but I think he meant ND instead of NG...negligent discharge.
     
  14. SDC

    SDC Member

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    "FPS" = "firing pin safety" ie. the firing pin block that is raised out of the way by the trigger travel.
     
  15. Cocked & Locked
    • Contributing Member

    Cocked & Locked Member

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    Obviously, I'm a fan of carrying cocked & locked. Once upon a time, I had a Colt Mustang and never felt comfortable carrying it C&L (even in a pocket holster). The reason was the safety lever...even though small, it was too easy to disengage in my pocket.

    Having to cock the hammer, or rack the slide to chamber one, prior to needing a defensive gun at the ready seemed NOT GOOD to me. That was just my opinion.

    I never thought the Mustang (even though cute) was a good carry gun for me. For pocket carry, the little Colt lost out to a S&W 642.
     
  16. crucible

    crucible Member

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    Kenrocks, thank you, yes I did mean ND; corrected now.

    C-
     
  17. Mainsail

    Mainsail Member

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    That would be tough to work out, since I have an absolute rule against putting my finger inside the trigger guard when the gun is loaded, unless I’m going to fire it.
     
  18. DC3-CVN-72

    DC3-CVN-72 Member

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    Not safe. Condition #1 or #3 for me
     
  19. UglyGlock

    UglyGlock Member

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    in the board lingo, "That's a big +1." There is no safe way to decock a loaded 1911, and they are not designed to be safely decocked.

    The only time i have had an accidental discharge was doing just this with a colt combat elite. Hammer was between my fingers, pulled trigger, slowly let the hammer down and it slipped between my fingers and the gun went off. Thankfully it was pointed in a safe direction, but the .45 went through the floor and two downstairs walls.

    I strongly recommend against fingers on triggers unless you are ready to shoot and destroy that at which your barrel is pointed.

    If you don't feel comfortable "cocked and locked" then please keep the chamber empty and go with "Isriali draw"
     
  20. Zonamo

    Zonamo Member

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    Hello again Steve. I see from all the threads you are having fun getting acquainted with your new Mustang.:p

    As others have noted, the Mustang has a firing pin block, which means that an inadvertent strike against an uncocked hammer will not cause a discharge. However, there are a couple of reasons I would recommend against carrying the Mustang in Condition 2.

    First, as someone else noted, even though a strike against the hammer won't cause a discharge, the hammer could easily get snagged in a pocket and pulled back enough to fire. Second, the Mustang hammer is very small. I wouldn't want to be trying to thumb that tiny ring hammer back under stress. And while you can safely lower the hammer on a live round if you are careful, there is always a risk of a negligent discharge every time you do it.

    There is no risk of discharging a live round to place the pistol in Condition 1. Mustangs can even be racked with the safety on. And if the safety ever did get knocked to off, the gun still requires a pull of the trigger to fire. Unlike Condition 2, the hammer, being already back and shielded by the tang, can't be snagged to "half-cock" and fire as it could in Condition 2.

    I have pocket carried a Mustang for years in Condition 1 and never had the safety swiped off, even with the custom ambi safety installed. And even if it did, I would still feel more comfortable with Condition 1 than Condition 2 for the reasons stated above. But if Condition 1 just doesn't work for you, I would suggest Condition 3 which requires much less finesse to rack the slide than trying to thumb the hammer back to fire.

    One other recommendation I would make with single action pocket carry is to use a leather holster that is stiff enough to make it impossible for something like a key to engage the trigger. It's an added measure of safety in the rare instance that the thumb safety is disengaged. I use a Hedley, but PCS and others make similar quality holsters.

    Good luck and enjoy your new Mustang.
     
  21. Steve H

    Steve H Member

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    The PCS came in the mail today. Now all I have to do is get new springs for the mags.....

    Thanks to EVERYBODY for the input.
     
  22. ceetee

    ceetee Member

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    I know that "Condition one", and "Condition three" are accepted ways to carry a single-action auto, but since we agree that "Condition Two" is not safe, what's the third way?
     
  23. GunNut

    GunNut Member

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    I agree with the others, either condition 1(my preferred) or Condition 3(might as well carry a big knife) are your safest options.

    Steve
     
  24. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    If not Condition 1 then Condition 3 for reasons already stated.

    "I'm experienced in handling firearms", well there are two types of people when it comes to ADs, NDs, or whatever you want to call them. There are thosu who have had one and those that are going to have one.
     
  25. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    ceetee,

    The "Carrying Modes" from the manual don't correspond directly to the typically discussed Condition 1, Condition 2, etc.

    Here they are along with summaries of Colt's descriptions of why you would use each mode.

    Mode 1: Magazine & Chamber empty. (Storage, cleaning, demonstrating, dry practice, transporting, etc.)
    Mode 2: Magazine Loaded, Chamber Empty, Hammer Down. (Carrying the Pistol Ready for Use.)
    Mode 3: Magazine Loaded, Chamber Loaded, Hammer Cocked, Safety On. (When you Must Be Prepared to use the pistol Immediately without warning.)
     
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