Ishapore and the Net

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Storm

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Yesterday I found myself about 55 miles from home, in a town outside of Athens, GA, and in the vicinity of a very good shop, Clyde Armory, one that I don't get to nearly enough. I figured I'd stop by and see what ammo they had and maybe see what milsurp rifles were in stock. My eye immediately caught two obvious Enfields leaning in the corner. I have developed a real weakness for Enfields, but so far know relatively little about them (other than a Savage on layaway), so I had to look at them.

At first I was horrified by the black paint slathered on the metal as if a pre-schooler had done something naughty. I was tempted to put the rifles down and walk away, but there was something about them that kept me looking. The clerk came over, a young man who was originally from England, who wasn't sure of the story on them, but fondly recalled carrying an Enfield during his days in the British equivalent of the ROTC. When I saw the "Ishapore" and ".308" on the tag I said that I thought they might be Indian. The price ($199) was one that I could just swing (still recovering from my Mauser 98K expenditures) so I put the gun down and went out to my car. Having a Dash phone with Internet access I got to work.

Within ten to fifteen minutes I had the answers and the history of the rifle, one produced in 1965. My main concern was to confirm that it was originally chambered as a .308, or in this case, 7.62 NATO. A re-chambered gun was out of the question and I seemed to recall that there was an issue with re-chambered Enfields. I also wanted to confirm that the ghastly paint could come off of the gun and what would be underneath. There seems to be debate as to whether the gloppy paint was original to the gun, so I would feel fine in removing it. I also confirmed that the thin stripe of blonde wood on the side of the stock by the receiver was an arsenal repair. There were two others well blended, as this one will soon be.

I went back inside and paid for the gun chosing the one with the best bore and best stock. On the way home I picked up the can of Easy-Off that I had learned (on the phone in a thread here) would easily remove the paint. Last night I removed the paint from the nose piece and magazine, shown below sans paint. With the paint gone (Easy-Off is great) the mag showed a nice parkerized finish that will require no further action. The nose piece had nice blued steel underneath with just the lightest wear at the edges which I touched up with 3M Gun Blue Creme. I have rarely seen steel take to bluing like this did. It now looks like the piece just rolled off the factory floor. Tonight I will strip the gun and begin working on removing the paint off of the rest of the steel. The stock will stay pretty much as is with a minor cleaning and a blending of the arsenal repair. This video will help immensely in disassembly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjYG7WHaXWk

The one thing about the acquisition of this gun that really stood out to me was being able to access that kind of information within ten or fifteen minutes from the parking lot of the gun shop. It's really kind of incredible to me as I well recall similar instances way back when when I had to roll the dice, or not, without that kind of information at hand.

It's really cool to be living in the future.

I hope that you won't mind me sharing some photos of the Ishapore as it transforms. Here's the nose piece and mag finished and ready to go. I'll do some before pics of the rest of the rifle.

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...

this is definitely THE milsurp i want to have!

Congratz. And Yes, it´s a pleasure to be able
to gain pro-knowledge in the middle of the woods like that :)
 
Here's the before with the refurbed nose piece and magazine installed. The arsenal repair is obvious, but won't be when I'm done with it. You can see the black paint and why it must go.

BTW, this gun was distributed by Numrich, and, as you would imagine, there are plenty of parts for it available.

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Nice... I like my Ishy a lot. I left the paint on, though.

Nice rifle! Looks like it is splice free. If I would have had the quality of paint that yours has I would have been very tempted to leave it on. Mine was multiple layers and made the metal look like it was made of Play-Doh. It was on so thick that they had to rub it off to be able to read the serial number. The gun is full of stamps and not a one was even close to being visible.

Since I have the afternoon off I decided to do the messy work before my wife was around to glare at me. This wasn't a kitchen table job. Following what I had learned in the disassembly video I broke the gun down. Inside is cosmoline hell. No matter. There were no nasty surprises inside. I laid out newspaper in the garage and got to work removing cosmoline before the paint. One thing that I learned, and this is very useful to know, is that wherever there is cosmoline on the metal the Easy-Off won't work. The Easy-Off does remove cosmoline but not in corners and at sharp contours. Wear gloves. It was a mess. Luckily my first attempt got about 98% of the paint which will allow me to get the rest in a much smaller fashion than a procedure that required the use of a garden hose. Also, if the paint can't be seen I won't worry about it. I'll temporarily slip it back in the stock and see what will be visible that still needs to be removed. I'm guessing very, very little. Here it is waiting for the paint to lift after some scrubbing.

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Although I sort of expected it, I was still nicely surprised when the metal underneath turned out to be Parkerized. And while there is wear, a little bluing will blend the bare metal in nicely. As I've said, I've rarely seen metal take bluing this well. As it is, virtually all of the barrel is encased in stock, so this is going to be a simple fix with very little that will need to be done to the metal. I'm glad that black paint was on there all of these years. I am going to confirm whether the black paint was used when the guns were in use or only an arsenal thing. Here is the barrel/receiver dried in the sun on my front steps.

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Next I will be taking the bolt, sight wings, trigger guard, and stock strap and other hardware and stripping the paint off of them which are small easy jobs. The butt plate only requires cleaning up. After that will be cosmoline removal from the wood and cleaning it up with possibly a coat of tung oil (or not). I will leave the "188" on the stock if possible as that is part of the history of the rifle. I hope it can stay. The arsenal repair will be lightly sanded and dyed to match the rest of the wood and then coated with tung oil. I'm thinking two evenings will be adequate to finish it up. Another nice thing was that once the cosmoline was out of the bore it turns out to have strong bright and shiny rifling. I have read that some of these guns were shot little, while yet others saw some very intense action. Below is a photo of the gun's component parts laid out with the paint gone from the largest part. Expended time: about 2.5 hours with part of that spent trimming down the front of a long screwdriver so that it could reach the bolt holding the stock onto the rear of the receiver.

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I can't believe how good that receiver/barrel looks after easy-offing it. Amazing that it doesn't remove the park. Pretty cool!
 
I can't believe how good that receiver/barrel looks after easy-offing it. Amazing that it doesn't remove the park. Pretty cool!

I was pretty amazed myself. In the shop I could see some areas where the black paint had flaked off and it sort of looked like Parkerizing so I figured I might luck out. I've read that finishes under the paint vary from Parkerized like mine to bare metal to blued.

Some have called the black paint Suncorite, a British product, but some who appear to be in the know have said that this isn;t true and that it might be a local Indian product. Whether it is was used in action or merely an aresenal preservative (or both) is unknown. I guess it matters not as whatever it was is gone, and I say good riddance.

I've aslo verified that the serial numbers of the gun match, at least as to steel parts. I'm not aware whether stocks were serial numbered, and I've got a lot of cosmoline to remove before I can find out.
 
Very nice! I live in Milledgeville, an hour below Athens, and have been planning to go by Clyde's sometime soon as my brother lives up there. That's actually one of the rifles I would like to pick up after checking out a friend's. Maybe that other one will hang around a couple of weeks. Hope it performs well for you!
 
Very nice! I live in Milledgeville, an hour below Athens, and have been planning to go by Clyde's sometime soon as my brother lives up there. That's actually one of the rifles I would like to pick up after checking out a friend's. Maybe that other one will hang around a couple of weeks. Hope it performs well for you!

Hey!

They told me that they get them in regularly so if the remaining one goes I'm sure they will be replaced.
 
This is mine, my paint was in better shape so it stayed. My wood was pitiful so I used murphys oil on it.

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Last night I sat at the kitchen table with all of the metal parts in front of me, stripped down to the Parkerized steel, touched up in a very minor way with cold blue (which beautifully matched except for the texture) and looked to the wood to figure out what to do with it. My goal with this rifle all along has been to return it to a condition consistent with when the rifle was used. My compromise has been to remove the horrible black paint, and, I’m not really sure how much of a compromise that really is. I know that there are all kinds of views on altering a gun, from those of purists to folks who sporterize and Bubba a rifle. As a lifelong model railroader I know that it is much the same where you have folks who will freelance and others who are fanatical “bolt counters” who demand uncompromised accuracy. I’m cool with either, but with this rifle my goal was to get it as close to original as possible and still be able to live with it. There would be compromises.

So, when it came to the wood I had choices. I could leave it alone. I could acquire new wood. I could also strip the entire stock and refinish it. Or, I could try and blend in the arsenal splice as best I could and coat it with tung oil for a very close to original look. This last option offered the best choice especially in light of the fact that I found the matching serial number of the stock, so, I had a gun with 100% matching serial numbers.

After a tiny bit of sanding to meld in the arsenal splice on the side of the stock by the receiver it became clear to me that this piece of blonde splice was so thickly impregnated with finish that I would have to extensively sand the entire area of the stock to get the splice to take dye/stain. I also knew that one thing would lead to another and I would most likely end up refinishing the whole stock, and this I didn’t want. It would take the gun away from original, and despite the stock being in nice condition (except for the splices) it would never look right once I tried to turn it into something that it isn’t: a nice piece of furniture. It would look fine as was but would look wrong with considerable efforts to make it look good because that was something that wasn’t going to happen anyway. So, I went to the lightly sanded splice and hit is with just a bit of dye to take the edge off the contrast between it and the rest of the stock. It still shows, but that is part of the history of this rifle. The same with the “188” painted on in white which remains. It is rifle “188” and always will be. At that point I cleaned the wood and went over it with a Scotch Brite pad paying extra attention to lightly sharpening contours at the edges of the wood. I then put three coats of tung oil on and it is now good to go. Once we have some sun here I’ll get up the final photos.

A few things to note:

1. Be very careful if you chose to remove paint from the metal sight protection tabs that stick up out of the stock. First, I couldn’t figure out how to remove them as they seem to be embedded in the stock with the screws there having nothing to do with removing/securing them. More importantly, do not use Easy-Off on them. On the leading edge of one of them I detected that the Easy-Off was most likely causing a reaction with the metal causing some very minor pitting. I then left well enough be and some paint spots remain on the leading edges. The sides of the tabs can be done using denatured alcohol which requires more effort but leaves the metal and finish intact.

2. 99% plus of the paint can be removed. If the rifle is Parkerized there will b a few tiny areas where the paint sticks whatever the effort to remove it. I say leave well enough alone for fear of making matters worse. Most of these areas are covered by the stock anyway. The remaining spots of paint are so inconsequential that the risks incurred in removing them far outweighs the benefits of them being gone.

3. Inside the wood there will be relatively fresh cosmoline and a whole bunch that seems to have crystallized black. Remove the fresh stuff and let the other be as it isn’t going anywhere.

4. Err on the side of letting things be. I wanted a rifle that if I saw it as it is now in the shop I would have grabbed the rifle and not put it back down until it was in the backseat of my car. The paint was my major issue and in the end that is really the only major change that I made. If the paint looks good as it does on some of these rifles, leave it be. If it sucks as mine did (it was really, really horrible) then maybe you could find an out of sight test area to remove some of the paint to see what is underneath. If it's Parkerized I wouldn't hesitate to remove the paint.

5. When using Easy-Off wear rubber gloves, without fail. I did except for last night when I noticed that two screws that hold on the rear sling fixture still had paint on the heads. I hit them quickly with Easy-Off and without thinking picked them up with the thumb and first finger of each hand. Despite washing my hands immediately some got under the nails and then trapped when I put moisturizer on my dried hands. I woke up at 1:30 in the AM in agony. I'm mighty sore today.

Photos later.
 
This is mine, my paint was in better shape so it stayed. My wood was pitiful so I used murphys oil on it.
That mag isn't fully seated or it's an aftermarket, longer mag... which is it?

Rifle looks nice!
 
Great looking Ishapore man. I'm from Watkinsville and I always try to swing by Clyde Armory when I'm in town, they are definitely my favorite gun store in the Athens area. I had my sights set on one of their Ishapores a couple of years ago, but my college budget just would not allow. I have always loved the SMLE design, and the fact that Ishys are chambered for an easily procurable round made them all the more alluring to me. Sadly they had kind of fallen to the back of my mind, I think this thread may have re-lit the fire though. I'm finally getting done with school in May, seems like it might be a good occasion to add a fascinating old battle rifle to the stable. Great thread!
 
Well, here is is. The light will get no better here today. The flash makes the stock look real bad and the Parkerizing look like bare metal, but so it goes. To do anything more to this rifle it will require refinishing the stock, and I don't want to go there.

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Just as an aside, I was surprised to find a matching serial number on the magazine. I'd like to know how many mags these rifles were issued with. That matching serial number seems to me to support the position of those who believe that the mag wasn't supposed to be taken out to be loaded or changed with a fresh mag, but remain in and be fed with stripper clips.

I'm still applying tung oil, especially to the area that was sanded around the splice.
 
That matching serial number seems to me to support the position of those who believe that the mag wasn't supposed to be taken out to be loaded or changed with a fresh mag, but remain in and be fed with stripper clips.
That's correct as I understand it... the mag wasn't really meant to be removed/replaced.

Looks good, Stormy. Did you blue the bolt handle knob?
 
Yup, the bolt handle and ball had to be blued. I used Black Magic for that. That part didn't seem to be Parkerized nor was any other part of the bolt if I recall correctly. It was painted, at least the outer rear parts from the handle back. .
 
Just by way of update, I did a bit mre finishing on the Ishipore. Originally I stopped after a few coats of tung oil. The problem was that the area that I had sanded around the splice was soaking up the oil at a quicker rate and was ending up with more of a matte finish than the rest of the wood. The stock originally had a gloss sheen so I wanted that area to match. I had to lay on another five or six coats before it evened up to the rest of the finish. I also added two or three coats to the wood overall initially and another two later on.

I ended up making the mistake of doing the last few coats at the splice on the quick with a Kleenex which left small white flexs in the finish. That was stupid. To fix this I went over the area very lightly with a Scotch Brite pad that ended up removing the white flecks from the splice area. This also blended that area of finish into the rest of the wood which was followed by two additional coats of oil to the entire stock which really finished it up with a very even overall finish.

The original gloss sheen to the stock allowed me to take the tung oil finish further than I did with my Mauser. With my Mauser I even did a final rub before the oil had completely dried to take the shine off.

Overall it was a very fun project. My fingers are now almost healed from the Easy-Off injury. the tip of my right first finger looks like the glazed coating of Creme Brulee. An icky photo of my badly swollen burned fingertip is shown below. Again, when using Easy-Off wear gloves at all time.

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