It just got very real in my home!

[Yo Mama]

gamestalker, first, thank God everyone is ok.

I am in AZ also, with kids in school. I suggest you request a security meeting with parents, teachers, and the Principal. We had one last night,....which went ok.

Bottom line, they are going to say they don't have the money, and you as a parent will have to raise the money in the community, which is what we are doing.

There were a few ideas I didn't think of from a few Police Officers in attendance:

1. Challenge anyone who doesn't belong. Easy to tell without a visible patch or badge. Parents need to be aware, and follow the rules as well.

2. The outside of the school, coming into the entry ways, must be treated like a cockpit. No one can pass through, no matter what. Harden these areas first. You can spent money on everything, but this takes money out of the school budget.

3. AZ law is a little unclear. At a charter school, staff may have the right to carry CCW. We are investigating options for this, but unfortunately Parents were split, about 60 percent for, the rest against. The Principal is really for, so I think they will keep looking at options.

We discussed many options, let me know if you'd like I can send you the list of options we are taking first.

Security also takes other forms I had not thought of. In responding to other emergencies such as disasters, the school is also not prepared. Small things like shade for the kids, if they need to be on the asphalt for 4 hours if a plane hit the school. Carpets for the ground to sit on. Alarms for a door that a child can get through.

Bottom line, demand a meeting, and form a committee to start taking action. If they are not willing to do this with you, leave the school and enroll where they take this seriously.

God bless.

 

[premier1]

It's amazing how criminals evidently can't read the signs for gun free zones. No one wants to believe that our schools are targets for these crazies. But despite the statistics pointing to the safety of our schools, when these terrible crimes happen it creates a hysteria. The answer of course as we here on this site all know is certainly not more gun control laws of any kind. We should have a national ban on these gun free zones,we also should have our states CCW permits honored in evert state.Magazine capacity legislation is a real joke I'm sure criminals are not going to worry about how many rounds they have.And finally wether we like it or not,or want to admit it or not schools are a targeted area.We didn't want to believe for years about planes,but we finall put armed air marshalls on planes. As much as we hate it schools need better securty. I work in armed security and I believe it's needed in schools as a detirent.Why do schools not have armed security currently it comes down to two reasons,money and potential liability. There are things however we can do to make the whole of our country safer and believe me it's not more laws.

 

[Mayo]

I don't know who is making some of these decisions. I can tell you I have 1 child in elementary school where (since Sandy Hook) there is a uniformed officer on school grounds open to close---meanwhile, my other son in middle school has nobody there. Same school district, same county. I can't tell you how much more peace of mind I have with my younger son having somebody posted at his school! Now IF you were going to do something which school are you going to? :banghead:

 

[Njal Thorgeirsson]

In my opinion, its no accident that their proposed restrictions will not reduce violence.

I am no conspiracy theorist, I'm always as logical and realistic as I can be. But I think its fairly well-established that the anti-gun politicians are willing to use the deaths of children in aiding their political agendas by enstating restrictions that would not have saved lives (as opposed to taking other measures, such as mental health research and funding etc, that may prevent future trageties). I think they want violence like this to continue, so that in the future when mas shooting continue they may further restrict firearms.

 

[icanthitabarn]

Maybe a few million little kids and their clear thinking parents could bombard the media and ask them to do storys asking our leaders /sarc. to make sure some good men with guns are close to them. The average six yr. old would grasp the concept. Maybe also ask them to not scare and punish them for child games and drawings.

 

[gossamer]

Very sorry to hear your granddaughter and her classmates was/is traumatized.

At least the reaction and quick thinking seems to have de-escalated the incident and run off the BG, no one was hurt, and no one had to fire a shot.

While the politics is maddening, at least her school was not the scene of something worse than a lock down.

I'm not sure how this situation would have changed had anyone in the school been armed; however, from this moment on, it would be very good to know that someone at that school is armed and prepared to mitigate any future threat should one arise.

 

[9MMare]

gamestalker, first, thank God everyone is ok.

I am in AZ also, with kids in school. I suggest you request a security meeting with parents, teachers, and the Principal. We had one last night,....which went ok.

Bottom line, they are going to say they don't have the money, and you as a parent will have to raise the money in the community, which is what we are doing.

There were a few ideas I didn't think of from a few Police Officers in attendance:

1. Challenge anyone who doesn't belong. Easy to tell without a visible patch or badge. Parents need to be aware, and follow the rules as well.

2. The outside of the school, coming into the entry ways, must be treated like a cockpit. No one can pass through, no matter what. Harden these areas first. You can spent money on everything, but this takes money out of the school budget.

3. AZ law is a little unclear. At a charter school, staff may have the right to carry CCW. We are investigating options for this, but unfortunately Parents were split, about 60 percent for, the rest against. The Principal is really for, so I think they will keep looking at options.

We discussed many options, let me know if you'd like I can send you the list of options we are taking first.

Security also takes other forms I had not thought of. In responding to other emergencies such as disasters, the school is also not prepared. Small things like shade for the kids, if they need to be on the asphalt for 4 hours if a plane hit the school. Carpets for the ground to sit on. Alarms for a door that a child can get through.

Bottom line, demand a meeting, and form a committee to start taking action. If they are not willing to do this with you, leave the school and enroll where they take this seriously.

God bless.

Thank you for recognizing your obligations as parents to finance your beliefs.

I would mention tho, that the Newtown school in CT HAD a specific, controlled, security entrance....and the shooter knew it and went in thru a window. That's why it seems to come down to making schools into prisons if you want to eliminate ALL possibility of mass shootings (and even then I doubt it would work 100% of the time).

 

[VI-Shooter]

I am not seeing or hearing nearly enough about the DETERRENT affect of eliminating "gun free zones" and having armed personnel at our schools. Having someone armed and present is great for a response, but I am of the opinion that even the crazies are less likely to target our schools is they know of an armed presence there.

 

[armoredman]

gamestalker, you post from SW AZ, but I can tell you my little corner of South Central AZ, Pinal County, has a Sheriff that has called for training and arming of teachers/admin. Steps in the right direction.

 

[btg3]

Did anyone bother to read my post? Did anyone bother...

Some forums tend to be more about posting and less about reading -- which tends to thwart meaningful dialogue. Is there anything of note you'd like to discuss from anyone's post other than your own? Just sayin'...

 

[orionengnr]

When are the citizens of this country going to realize that gun bans will have absolutely no impact on violent offenders, and will not in any way, shape, or form make us safer. When will the common citizen realize that they are completely responsible for their own safety and welfare. When will the average every day citizen realize that when only seconds count, the police are minutes away! When?

The moment that something happens in their own back yard...and not a moment sooner.

Unfortunately.

 

[huntsman]

home school or private school, it time for the citizens to wake up and realize public school has not real interest in teaching or protecting kids they're all about maintaining the bureaucracy and providing union jobs. Like you said OP it's your job to protect and educate yours.

 

[breakingcontact]

People need to pull their kids out of these failing public schools. Home school or send them to good private schools. If you can't afford those options cut back on your lifestyle. Its pathetic how unsecure the schools are. We guard things we care about with gates and armed guards right? But not at school?

 

[9MMare]

I am not seeing or hearing nearly enough about the DETERRENT affect of eliminating "gun free zones" and having armed personnel at our schools. Having someone armed and present is great for a response, but I am of the opinion that even the crazies are less likely to target our schools is they know of an armed presence there.

Armed guards and not being gun-free zones (in many states) doesnt keep banks from being robbed.

 

[Texan Scott]

Gamestalker,

I am glad your granddaughter is safe. What upsets me (and I suspect you as well) is not simply that a nut got run off (a good thing, right?) but that the schools' response scared her so badly.

As adults, we need to understand the difference between taking responsibilty for being safe, and merely feeling safe. Our children, on the other hand, need to feel safe, period. It is up to the adults to ensure that they are safe, but also that they feel safe.

Yo Mama's comment were spot on. Our children need to be going to schools that give thought to these things so the children never have to. I do believe that replacing "gun free zone" signs with "armed response" signs is a good step, but safety and security precautions need to be planned in far greater depth, to include access control, disaster preparedness, and emergency medical response. As parents, grandparents, and taxpayers, we should be demanding this, loudly.

No schoolchild should be afraid to go to school. Shame on the school for not handling this without frightening the kids, and shame on us if we don't find a better response than this.

 

[gamestalker]

Honest John,
This was not from the mouth a 5 yr. old! There were letters sent home informing parents of the incident, and it was also in the news, it was by no means from the mouth of a terrified 5 yr. old.
Cesiumsponge, I did read your post which only further identifies the ill placed mind set of society, in my opinion. LE patrol on campus property doesn't stop an armed man assailent before he gets into the building and starts shooting. Locked doors don't stop this, cameras don't stop it. We need armed security that can confront such threats, and before they have the opportunity to start shooting innocent victims at wiil. It takes only seconds for an armed individual to do his deadly deed, and only, only an armed security detail has any chance of preventing that threat from carrying out his intentions. Schools are safe? I respectfully disagree. In fact yesterday a student was caught with a handgun in the school, second incident in 2 days in the same city.
And threats in the schools between students is no different when refering to an armed threat. But I will say this much, an armed security detail on site and in the building will increase the chance of stopping such a threat and would be far more preventive in this respect than waiting for LE to respond, which is typically much after the fact.
According to statistics, most will not ever encounter a deadly situation in their life time, I am not one of those and have multiple times in my life. But stats don't tell the whole story. Many never report such threats because of state laws that would charge them for even carrying a weapon in their state. My Sister and myself have not reported them for that very reason, so don't go quoting statistics to me. I would most certainly not be here today if not for my best friend on my hip.
GS

 

[gamestalker]

Armoredman, I am very aware of your great sherriff and think he is moving in the right direction. I just read about him sending a letter to Obama in regard to better school security in this manner.

Texan Scott, I couldn't agree more about how the school handled this incident. My Grand Daughter has not stopped talking about this incident, and it took hours to calm her down and to get her to stop bursting into tears.

Just One Shot, this is not surprising and would certainly add to the security needed in schools. I have friends that teach, and they have clearly stated that they would take such courses and accept the responsibility to carry a CW. The politicians are making this into a big financial budget issue, when in fact, arming teachers would greatly reduce any budget impact needed to defend our schools. Adding LE to our streets isn't what we are asking for, and it sure wouldn't have much, if any, impact on this type of violence.

GS

 

[Cesiumsponge]

The simple truth is that there has NEVER been a 'gun problem' at the schools where the presidents children go.

The simple truth is that there has NEVER been a 'gun problem' at any of the public schools myself or any of my siblings attended (anecdotal), or an overwhelming number of schools in America. Close to 30% of schools in America already have security guards or law enforcement presence daily. We had homeless vagrants wandering through school property all the time. Today they'd lock down the school for such incidents, I bet. This is just as bad as liberals who cherry pick rare events and pass them off as something happening around every town and city in America as rationalization to ban the methodology in which those bad things are carried out. It's arguable that MORE HARM is being done by zero tolerance policies where administrators treat kids like criminals or even expel them for sheets of paper with a tear in it that makes it look "gun like" or talking about blowing bubbles at school.

Some forums tend to be more about posting and less about reading -- which tends to thwart meaningful dialogue. Is there anything of note you'd like to discuss from anyone's post other than your own? Just sayin'...

Yes. My initial post with figures from the government was in response to thwart the Chicken Little mentality theme. I was unsuccessful.

Cesiumsponge, I did read your post which only further identifies the ill placed mind set of society, in my opinion. LE patrol on campus property doesn't stop an armed man assailent before he gets into the building and starts shooting. Locked doors don't stop this, cameras don't stop it. We need armed security that can confront such threats, and before they have the opportunity to start shooting innocent victims at wiil. It takes only seconds for an armed individual to do his deadly deed, and only, only an armed security detail has any chance of preventing that threat from carrying out his intentions. Schools are safe? I respectfully disagree. In fact yesterday a student was caught with a handgun in the school, second incident in 2 days in the same city.

If it takes seconds for a rampage shooter to do his deed and you want a reasonable armed response time (say, 15-30 seconds), you're going to need a dozens of armed security guards placed in a manner so they can visually cover most of the school inside and out, assess the situation, and engage any target inside 30 seconds. That isn't realistic. You'd have more luck arming all teachers since they'd cover more ground without much additional expense.

Columbine and Virginia Tech are good examples of how armed presence is worthless if it fails to act or is too far away. I'm not suggesting "do nothing" or remove all armed presence. I agree it'll increase the chances of stopping a massacre, but what kind of probabilities are we trying to stop? Are we more concerned with stopping rampage killers, the rarest type of gun-related school incident? Or are we more concerned with stopping angry kids who steal their parent's guns? Or gang members settling a score? Or curious kids that'll sneak their old man's gun to school for showing off? Is it really guns in the hands of kids that is the issue or the nature of society today? The older folks will remember kids used to bring rifles and archery equipment to school so they could go target practice or hunting after classes were over.
Schools are still safe compared to the statistical background crime rates in the general public. How was the kid with a handgun at that school caught? Was he showing it off? Did it fall out of his backpack? Was he planning to shoot someone? A handgun concealed in a backpack could only be discovered with mandatory metal detector checkpoints or a fortuitous event. Should we simply put metal detectors at every controlled access point in school buildings? That would take care of the issue of stopping everyone but a rampage shooter.

But stats don't tell the whole story. Many never report such threats because of state laws that would charge them for even carrying a weapon in their state....My Sister and myself have not reported them for that very reason, so don't go quoting statistics to me.

I appreciate you survived against the scumbags of society but your reporting or not reporting an armed incident against a lethal force attack, which didn't contribute to specific statistics, is irrelevant in the matter of the statistics of dead kids. The government isn't cooking books and no one is failing to report dead kids to lower the number of fatalities listed under "Number of school-associated violent deaths of students, staff, and nonstudents, by type". The 77% drop in violent crimes on school campuses listed under "Number of nonfatal victimizations against students ages 12–18 and rate of victimizations per 1,000 students, by type of victimization, location, and year" isn't being cooked either considering the "zero tolerance" policy in public schools been getting increasingly authoritarian the last several decades. If anything, I'd have expected a rise in yearly reported violent incidents because more incidents like fisticuffs at school would now be listed as violent crimes. School officials today scrutinize even more instead of taking the lax "boys will be boys" mantra of letting poop slide.

Statistics can't take everything into account and I am not disagreeing with you on that matter. You can't simply throw out all records and statistics. It's understandable that certain types of statistics can be flawed, such as reporting use of a firearm, especially since the possibility exists that you might be arrested, or at the very least tied up in criminal and civil court. Not every statistic has such wide latitude for erroneous representation and reporting.