It's 10pm - Do You Know Where Your Assault Rifle Is?

[anythingshiny]

Well I HOPE its not my front yard the guys are stacking up in...but IF I knew of a recent raid AND happened to find the M4, I would def contact them and maybe even keep it on the DL, reaching out quietly, knowing how the media would handle it.

Nurses and doctors, entrusted with your literal life in their hands, can and do make mistakes. The bottom line is no matter how high you hold the standard, we ARE all human and mistakes will be made.

You might say "He is SWAT and needs to be held to a higher standard" but unless you have NEVER made an error or exibited poor judgement then that standard can only be as high as you can meet as well. So, until you are perfect calling for the firing of what could be an outstanding officer who made a mistake.

The opposite side of the same coin is an individual in any line of work how has repeated shown a lack of attn to detail, given remedial training or opportunities and STILL makes the same or grevious mistakes..THEN you can nail em to the wall.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Double standard. This is gross negligence.

Yeah, sure it is.

But on who's part? This isn't the same as the case of a citizen leaving his gun on a front lawn. Departments have a heirarchy. Lots of people failed to let this mistake happen, from the top down.

One officer might be ultimately responsible for that rifle. But it's possible in that department it wasn't even assigned to one specific person. We just don't know. Are rifles kept, by policy, in the trunk of officer's cars, or are these rifles kept in an armory? How are they issued? What internal controls does the department have, as policy, on its patrol rifles?


Again, we just don't know.

If you're expecting me to jump on the bandwagon to call for some SWAT officer to be fired over this, I'm not ready to do that. I have no doubt that once this story reached the local news many elected people in the local government are "interested" in the outcome of it.

As I said, the department will handle it.

 

[TAB]

Any employee that is signed out for High dollar company equipment and can not keep tract of it should be fired.

 

[jorb]

Somebody needs a dummy cord, big time!

 

[mgregg85]

Yeah I don't own an assault rifle, definetly not rich enough to buy one quite yet. Unless you wanna send me about $15k, then I'm sure I could find one.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Lots of people failed to let this mistake happen, from the top down.

Oh easy to fix that . . . . fire and prosecute them all!

I mean it's not like police departments haven't been handling guns for a while that it is something new for them to do . . . . . SWAT teams have been around for how long? 40 years?

If they haven't figured out how to handle the equipment then there is a big problem right?

My point is simple - if a citizen or group of citizens did this, the repercussions would be VERY different. You know it. You also know it's wrong and if you can't recognize that you must be a cop!

More importantly, I submit to you Ken, that the root of this "let the department handle it" is part of the reason why we have gun control. The thinking that somehow police are different from us regular citizens and are entitled to different rights.

It's ironic, I called a buddy post election and mentioned that if he had any intent of getting an EBR in the near future, he should do so soon.

He responded (to my shock) I don't need a machine gun and the only ones who should have them are the police.

Maybe I should call him up and tell him what the well qualified police do with their machine guns eh?

It's all so counter to the second amendment it's just not funny.

And as far as what you should have done with the rifle, you make it safe so some kid doesn't get hurt and you give it back.

 

[CSA 357]

This is my rifle , there are many like it, but mine is lost? No sir it dont go like that, lose your weapon? Never!

 

[KelVarnson]

1.) Cut the thing in half.

2.) Call the media, so they can be present when the cops drop by to pick up the remains.

Another dangerous assault weapon off the street.

Would I have the stones to actually do that? Probably not. But it's a fun fantasy.

The (ir)responsible officer should be kept away from guns for a long, long time. Those of you defending him don't have much of a case, IMHO. An average citizen doing something like this would be crucified, both by the legal system and the media.

 

[BullfrogKen]

My point is simple - if a citizen or group of citizens did this, the repercussions would be VERY different. You know it. You also know it's wrong and if you can't recognize that you must be a cop!

Now I'm a cop? That's a new one.

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to that one, so I guess I just won't.

 

[N003k]

Alright, I gotta say that is a pretty big screw up, I'm not gonna jump up and say the officer should be fired, because who knows how exactly it got lost. Definatly a big screw up, but whos screw up is it?

That said, I do think that whoevers fault it was should be kept away from weapons for quite a long time, afterall, if they cant keep track of an assault rifle, I don't think they can keep track of much of any weapon they would be issued.

As for if I found it? Well, I'm not willing to keep it, but the ammo I'd keep, and the rest would be getting picked up dissassembled as far as I can personally take it.

 

[Slateman]

BA HA HA HA HA!!!

We an idiot officer do that in Iraq. Left his weapon at some haji's house . . . dude was losing everything left and right. Guess they don't teach gear accountability at OCS

 

[Fleetwood_Captain]

Just imagine if the people that found the damn thing wern't honest.

In a slightly different neighborhood somebody would have been quick to call up their dealer and trade the thing for a handfull of crack rocks.

Then it would be almost as bad as when the city of LA gave Hector Marroquin's anti-gun group $1.5 million and he used it to buy guns and sell them to gangbangers.

I could just see the headlines now. Makes me wonder where all of the BATFE's missing guns and laptops went...

 

[Highland Ranger]

Ahhhh Ken - no insult intended. It's just that folks who have a blind spot for the po-po usually are in some way connected. The blue line and all that . . .

I do appreciate the job they do and freely admit I wouldn't do it, especially not for the crappy pay involved.

My issue is their preferential treatment; it just shouldn't be allowed.

They should get speeding tickets when they speed, just like us.

And they should be prosecuted in whatever way one of us would when they leave a loaded weapon lying around in public. I'd have to imagine that in any state in the union, at a minimum you'd loose your ability to own a weapon and your 2a rights along with it after something like this . . . . Maybe through judgment as a mental defective, or however that is worded on the 4473's - who knows.

Bottom line - If anything their punishment should be worse. They are not above the law.

 

[woodybrighton]

it happens big fine but stuff like this happens
Once lost a pistol actually it was in a shoulder holster (I was wearing) the entire time very very funny for my team mates

 

[Mousegun]

On the other hand -----

As I get older, I find that it becomes easier to "misplace" stuff. I recognize this and take steps to prevent it like placing things down and making a specific mental note instead of just dropping and run like I used to be able to do, then come back days later and remember exactly where it is.

So I can relate to the officer's situation although I have not yet misplaced a firearm ---------------yet.

If I found it, it would be interesting to find the officer himself and return it to him directly on the QT. At least I know that I would never get a ticket out of his book and maybe even some free ammo for my assault rifle from time to time.

 

[kludge]

If I "forgot" my machine gun at a friends house, I would be charged with illegal transfer of a machine gun ane get 10 years and a huge fine.

I'm tired of having special classes of citizens; it's un-american.

 

[Mike2]

Is it just me or is that reporter HOT!!!! Hate to interject this little tid bit but....

 

[koja48]

Spot-on, SM . . .

 

[Seenterman]

Since when are cops held to a lower standard than civilians?

Simple if a civilian could have been charged with a crime, charge the officer.You are not special citizens. Just because you enforce the law does not mean it doesn't apply to you if you mess up by accident.

I choose a job where my actions cannot affect someone's life in a negative, or harmful way. If you choose a career that is dangerous, you cant use the excuse well its dangerous and I forgot as an excuse for mistakes on your part.

No cop bashing but we dont live in a caste society. EVERYONE is the same under the law.
Congressman = Senator = Mayor = Judge = District Attorney = Cop = Civilian

Where all the same under the law, and the laws should apply to everyone equally. If there are special citizens in this country, this isn't the USA I grew up in.

 

[cland]

Forgotten M4

Sure I'd turn it in to the Agency that owned it. A full-auto weapon sooner or later will get you turned in to the ATF, it isn't ours, finders keepers does not apply.

Besides my legal semi-auto M4 fills the bill and so far I don't have to hide it,
but it may be the one I lost when the boat capsized before Nov. '08

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm doubting it was as simple as "The guy just forgot it". I could see a conversation happening where he had to help move something, and took it off. He might have asked someone else, "You got my rifle?" "Yeah, no problem." And then the OTHER guy got tied up moving either material or people, and forgot. In any event, the team leader should ALSO be accountable for all his people and weapons. He shouldn't leave a scene until he knows everything is accounted for. A department, training SOP, and leadership that allows the details of getting in and out of a crime scene become more important than securing weapons are at least as much to blame as the cop. The leader who DIDN'T stand up and say, "I need to secure my gear before we help move stuff." is just as much to blame.

I dunno about firing. The sting of making a mistake is what makes you learn. I don't know if it's a good idea to eliminate everyone in your team who has ever felt it. Like my drill sgt used to tell us; "I won't punish you for making a mistake. I will punish you for NOT LEARNING from your mistake." With this mistake, no one got hurt. If they had, it would be different.

 

[franconialocal]

Lost Gun

"This was not some beat cop, it was a swat officer".......WHAT?? Sorry I'm just a lowly beat cop but last time I checked I was just as responsible for my firearm as any SWAT guy. Just because I'm some "beat cop" doesn't mean I'm any less responsible, aware of, and held accountable for my weapon and EVERYTHING I do with it.

--Signed-- "Just a beat cop"

 

[Guns and more]

I hope like heck, some of you folks never make a mistake in your work, or ADLs (activities of daily living) I really do.

There's a BIG difference between leaving a screwdriver behind at a job and leaving an M-4. And can we stop with the three letter abbreviations. Is it supposed to sound more important if it's a ADL rather than life?

 

[Eightball]

Not sure what the law is there, but whatever the penalty for a civilian would be, should be the same for this officer.

My thoughts exactly. Though, I somehow doubt that leaving a restricted, NFA-ish firearm laying in the grass in a neighborhood will be prosecuted under state OR federal level, simply because he was a LEO.

 

[TRGRHPY]

Forgetting a piece of equipment for almost everyone does not include a firearm.

In the Marine Corps, if you don't have your weapon within arms reach you are in deep sh**. It becomes a part of your person just like an apendage. It's a very easy concept: If your weapon has been issued to you from the armory, you must be in control of it.

My only problem with firing him is just the money spent training him would be out the door with him.

On the other hand, leaving a firearm behing at a crime scene is unforgiveable and if it were a civilian who had lost their weapon all kinds of legal action would be brought against them.

After thinking about it, re-training a new SWAT member is cheaper than a wrongful death or liability lawsuit from a civilian who could've been hurt with the firearm. Chalk it up to a lesson learned, fire the guy, and institute policy of accountability for firearms. The officer should be thankful that he's not being charged with a crime and accept his punishment.

He has to be fired. If he isn't, then the gap between "them and us" just gets bigger.