It's Two Years Now

[Robert J McElwain]

Okay. President Bush has been in the White House for two years now. And now, he has both sides of congress from his party.

Is it about time that we, as gun owners, should see something in exchange for our electing him? Say a national CCW or some other improvements in gun ownership laws?

Bob

 

[Oatka]

Don't hold your breath.

The next excuse for inaction will be that it's too close to the next presidential election and the Pubbies don't want to rile the opposition.

If they just sit on their hands, it won't tick off the gun owners, so they just have to worry about energizing the antis by something like letting the AW ban die. You can bet this crowd will renew it, with the NRA's approval.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm going by past experience.

Personally, I'd like to see staggered Sunset Laws on every piece of gun legislation, if not all laws passed in the last 50 years. After a while, the pols would be so tied up reviewing old laws, many useless/unconstitutional ones would simply die a natural death.

 

[4v50 Gary]

National CCW would be good, but I'll settle for lifting of the Assautl gun ban and restricted magazines. Next I'll go for the prohibition against new full autos to the public.

 

[Robert J McElwain]

<<<National CCW would be good, but I'll settle for lifting of the Assautl gun ban and restricted magazines. Next I'll go for the prohibition against new full autos to the public>>>

I live in Kansas, where our elected idiots still don't trust us with CCW. so it's an important issue with me.

I agree with you about restricted magazines, etc. But we've been waiting long enough. When is Washington going to start changing this stuff, or do they want us to vote Libertarian next time?

Bob

 

[Russ]

Won't happen. Guns are more severely restricted by State law than federal law. Each state has the option to do what it considers is best for it's "citizens" (tax slaves).

Try and convince that rotten commie S.O.B. Gray Davis of Califronia and the fruitcake Glendenning of MD that they should allow any CCW except for LEO's.

The phraseology to keep and bear arms is not included in some State Constitutions. California and several others have no equilvalent to the 2nd amendment. Believe me, the States can trash your rights alot easier than the Feds can.

I suppose in 90 years from now, when the SCOTUS hears a 2nd amendment case,they could preempt State law but by then, I plan to be dead!

 

[Silver Bullet]

I agree. Instead of merely resisting new gun control laws, we should actively work to undo the old ones. Otherwise, everytime an anti-gun congress is in session the anti-gun laws will just continue to ratchet forward.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Hey, not all gun owners would support National CCW, and I am one of them!

 

[Billll]

Silver Bullet has it exactly right. In the age-old contest of offence vs Defence, in the end Offence is always the winner. As long as we're playing defence to the antis, we are, by definition, losing.
Don't fight to keep an anti-gun law from being passed and then pat yourself on the back for it; Fight to get an existing anti-gun law repealed. Fight to get a pro-gun law passed.
Got an anti-lawsuit law for the firearm industry in your state? Ask the nice sponsoring legislator to amend it to substitute "legally manufactured product" for "firearm". It'll cut into the tort lawyers paychecks.
Make a note to yourselves: Once a month (for now), send your congresscritters a letter engouraging not renewing the AW ban. From today, untill 2 months or so before the vote. Then pick up the pace in the final stretch.
Write back now. It's better than shooting back later.

 

[Mustang]

Lone_Gunman...
Inquiring minds want to know .
Just lookin' to see why not...that's all.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Because all I have to do to get a CCW in Georgia is be a non-felon.

If the federal govt issues a national ccw it will be much more heavily regulated, and essentially registration of gun owners.

Instead of pushing for a national ccw, people need to push for their states to have "shall issue" type ccw's.

Reciprocity could be worked out thru the "full faith and credit" part of existing law.

 

[DevilMayCry]

Oatka,

Why do you say that the NRA would put their stamp of approval on a renewal of the AW ban?? Am I missing something? Personally I think that LaPierre is an idiot. The NRA is compromising way too much, I believe its to attract more so-called middle of the road gunowners. I long for the days when the NRA had less than 2.5 million members and seemingly more clout.

 

[mjustice]

Passing a Nationwide CCW law seems like a waste. How about a requirement/law that each state recognize the carry license issued by the other 49? If for no other reason, the holdout and may issue states would change their ways to get the license money. Why let Florida, Maine, or Utah get all the money?

MJ

 

[AR-10]

Several issues/topics here...

First of all, I agree that Bush will likely do nothing about helping us, even though I voted for him with hopes that he would. On the other hand, Ashcroft has made a little bit of noise that benefitted us.

Second, vote Libertarian to send them a message? BWAhahahaha!!!

Oatka has the best idea, and I bring it up to politicians and voters every time I get the opportunity. Put a Sunset Clause on every new or existing law. Ten years, and it is gone. This would be fabulous!! Lawmakers would have tons to do debating merits of old laws and keeping necessary laws current. Lots of headlines and press for them. It would also provide a way to eliminate stupid useless laws like most of the firearms laws and the Luxury Tax on telephones, to name just a very few.

National CCW. HATE the idea. Would just be a bunch of Government Red Tape and a chance to finger print me and make me list what firearms I want to carry and make me take annual training courses and show some Dillweed where I safely store my firearms and show proof of Liabilty Insurance because of course I would need to shoot someone since I have a CCW.

The NRA. Oh, my. They are working for us, right? Seems all they do is make backroom compromises that erode our options and call me every WEEK to let me know that the situation is critical and the only way I can help is to send money. They will do the rest. Sounds a lot like the government.

What was the topic? oh, yeah, POTUS Bush. I like him. I just am not expecting a whole lot from him on the firearms issue. On the bright side, he's no Bill Clinton.

 

[Blackhawk]

CCW is a state issue until the RKBA is upheld by the SCOTUS. Then state CCW laws will be reviewable by it.

Sort of like what happened in the early '60s when voting got straightened out at the state level by order of the SCOTUS.

If you're a non-felon in a shall issue state, you cannot be denied a CCW permit, but the fees are another form of taxation that infringes the RKBA.

I can see all states being required to be shall issue states, but the SCOTUS has to take and adjudicate a clean 2A case on that first. There are a few cookin' that may make it that far....

 

[Ian]

The onlt national CCW I'd support would be Vermont-style one. Basically, "It is legal to carry any lethal or non-lethal weapon(s), concealed or uncconcealed, in the United States of America. No state of local government may pre-empt this law."

 

[Blackhawk]

Ian, that's interesting. So felons are entitled to that as well?

 

[Tamara]

Blackhawk,

By "felon" do you mean "guy who hired a bad accountant", "guy who filled in the pond in his back yard", "guy who owned something the government didn't approve of", or "murderer/rapist/robber"?

Respectively, my answers would be "yes", "yes", "yes" and "irrelevant as they should be dead or under lock and key".

 

[Marko Kloos]

So felons are entitled to that as well?

If they are trusted to walk around in open society, they ought to be trusted with a self-defense implement. If they're inclined to do bad things, nobody will be able to keep them from carrying guns, anyway.

Isn't that what we keep telling the Antis...that bad guys don't obey the law by definition? So doesn't prohibiting felons from owning guns just constitute the same pointless "feel-good" legislation as gun bans?

Besides, I didn't notice any footnotes to the Second Amendment. Neither the Fed nor any State government has the right to void the Bill of Rights...the fact that they do it routinely doesn't make it legal or morally acceptable.

 

[Waitone]

Bashing the NRA is kinda like clubbing baby seals. The NRA will not defend itself.

Don't get excited about a publicly pro-gun agenda out of the Bush administration. They are still worried about "that Democrat said bad things about me." Until republicans learn how to govern they will continually run from the threat of bad words from Democrats.

I expect very little to be done publicly but a fair amount done behind the scenes.

Bush has two very clear and pronounced characteristics: 1>he fights one battle at a time (not a good characteristics of a military commander), 2>he will not fight unless he has a high percentage chance of winning. He will cave if he thinks he can't win (which drives people motivated by principal up the wall). In short, the joker is a politician, but a politician motivated by principal. My pucker factor goes up because I can't figure which principal he'll fight for and which principal he'll lay aside.

I would love to see sunsets put on all past gun legislation. Fact is I'd like to see all legislation have a sunset provision. But then again I'm driven to flights of fancy.

 

[Zander]

If they are trusted to walk around in open society, they ought to be trusted with a self-defense implement. -- lendringser

Precisely...no one should be stripped of the Right to Self-Defense with a tool of choice.

As Tamara avers, personal responsibility is the key; hold anyone, designated by the fed.gov [or state.gov re: residence]as "prohibited" or not, accountable for his actions.

There is no other logical way to approach it...

 

[Shooter 2.5]

'Here's the e mail from the NRA:

"Thank you for contacting NRA-ILA. As for your questions concerning the
so-called "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines, please know
that this law sunsets September 13, 2004 when it will be up for a
revote. The original ban was part of the 1994 Crime Bill. NRA is
opposed to this ban and we have consistently supported legislation
calling for its repeal. Rest assured that NRA will remain involved in
this issue as the sunset date for this ban approaches, and will be sure
to inform you of any developments on this front. "

That's what the NRA is doing. So the question remains, what are you doing except bashing the NRA? Write any letters lately? Phone legislators? Write editorial letters?

Does anyone here think that getting off the couch once every couple years and going to the polls does it? Is spending a few bucks to get a gun group card in the wallet really that big of a contribution?

 

[bronco61]

Okay. President Bush has been in the White House for two years now. And now, he has both sides of congress from his party. Is it about time that we, as gun owners, should see something in exchange for our electing him? Say a national CCW or some other improvements in gun ownership laws?

ROFLMAO!

No.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I expect nothing from Bush. He's a typical anti-gun pol, he just hides it better than most.

Oh, and I would be very down with national Vermont Carry. Were such a bill signed into law by Bush II, I would retract my previous statement.

- Chris

 

[TreeSquid]

I'm with chris, I expect nothing from W but continued erosion of civil rights, right down to the day he's booted out of office. The only good thing I think he's capable of doing with that group of advisors is to repeal some anti-gun laws, and he's just not doing it. Until he does, I will continue to long the day that zealous simian is out of office.

Sorry if I come off as a little nutty, but political events in this country of late are nothing short of depressing and frustrating. :banghead:

 

[Bainx]

I'm with ya Squid.