Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
No. They only have the responsibility to make them available and even then it isn't necessarily required by law.
They do not have to provide them for free with the cost of the product either.
I've never had a company refuse an owners manual
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No. They only have the responsibility to make them available and even then it isn't necessarily required by law.
They do not have to provide them for free with the cost of the product either.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
In what way is "Sir, thank you for contacting us regarding getting a replacement manual. If you like, you may have one instantly by going to http://www.taurususa.com/pdf/revolver-manual.pdf" not good customer service?
It seems that some of you are equating the costs of printing extra manuals, storing them, and then sending them out via snail mail with good customer service, when, in point of fact, the service that costs Taurus next to nothing is infinitely better because you get what you want nearly instantaneously, in a non-degradeable format that is also easily searched using keywords.
In what way is that inferior customer service?
As the comedian Louis C.K. put it "Everything's amazing, and nobody's happy."
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Having worked in the print industry, I know exactly what you're talking about. I've seen CONEX containers and rented storage units stuffed full of print products, moldering away on the off chance that a client needed more copies of the product.
More often than not those products would simply sit around until the latest edition would get printed, and the old ones would be tossed. So right there, you have the cost of storage (a monthly fee in the case of a rented storage unit, or lost real estate in the case of a CONEX container on site) plus the cost to print all of those items that had a slim-to-no chance of ever seeing the light of day.
Guess what? The cost of all of that had to get covered along the line somewhere, and I can guarantee that no viable company would pull that cost from their bottom line.
There's a solution for that.
Roger Ronas
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Within the last month I read on the net that 23% of USA can't afford or doesn't know how to operate a computer.
It would have been easy for Taurus to simply direct to pdf and also offered to send if customer desired. They could of offered to print out and send for minimal charge, then the customer could have chosen.
There are good points on both sides of this discussion. The unfortunate part is that the customer ended that communication feeling wronged and that's never good for the manufacture, do matter how minor of an incident.
Roger
It would have been easy for Taurus to simply direct to pdf and also offered to send if customer desired. They could of offered to print out and send for minimal charge, then the customer could have chosen.
There are good points on both sides of this discussion. The unfortunate part is that the customer ended that communication feeling wronged and that's never good for the manufacture, do matter how minor of an incident.
Roger
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I can't think of anything more unprofessional and cost-ineffective than mailing out a copy of something that came off of the secretary's printer.
Yech.
CapnMac
Member
This is slightly off-topic, but very germane and worth repeating.
Consumer-grade CD-R and DVD-R use a vegetable-based dye which is what is "burnt" on the disc.
Those dyes have a shelf life.
It's about 6 to 10 years before use.
But, it's only about 24 to 36 months after use before data degradation starts setting in.
You really need to check discs you are relying upon about every three years, to make sure the data is still good.
Which is also complicated, as Recordable disks of 5 and six years ago, those slower 4x, 6x, 8x discs, had more 'permanent' dyes on them. So, you could have very old discs which are good, and newer ones which are not.
I've been to this game a time or two, and it is not fun. OEM discs lost in fire, and then relying upon the in-house copies, to find those copies are not so good.
Double-check your data, mes amis.
mgmorden
Member
I'd say that for "can't afford", that number is high, and I have little sympathy for "doesn't know how". LEARN. If they didn't know how to read they wouldn't send someone over to read it to them.
Besides, anyone who can't afford a computer a) likely has one available at the library, or b) probably doesn't have the disposable income to afford a gun either.
I can honestly say that despite being a VERY avid "gun nut" - I own over 3 dozen of them, target shoot weekly, reload etc - I'd give up every single gun I own LONG before I'd give up my computer. Modern life simply doesn't work too well without one. The issue with the electric users manuals reinforces that.
mgmorden
Member
CapnMac: I still have discs I burnt in high school (12-13 years ago) that work fine. I pulled data off of some of them as little as 2 weeks ago. It really depends on the disc quality, but labs have done accelerated/simulated aging on some discs and found them still accessible after a simulated 100 years.
In any event, flash-based memory such as USB "thumb drives" is more prevalent than optical media now anyways, and I can guarantee you that a stored thumb drive - short of getting soaking wet or burned - will probably outlive most of us.
In any event, flash-based memory such as USB "thumb drives" is more prevalent than optical media now anyways, and I can guarantee you that a stored thumb drive - short of getting soaking wet or burned - will probably outlive most of us.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
It's also worth noting that there are other ways of storing data as well; thumb drives, portable hard drives, or even cloud-based services.
X-JaVeN-X
Member
...so get a flash drive instead. I think I read awhile back that the shelf life of a flash drive is like 300,000 hours which is like 34 years. With thumb drives, the biggest cause of failure is using it over and over moreso than just letting it sit. As you read and write over the same areas of memory, the more it degrades, but if you are putting all your info on it and then storing it, it will last a LONG time.....even using it regularly it will last much longer than cd/dvd.
As for the OP's issue....meh...you obviously have a computer and internet connection, go download it and print it if you want a hard copy and move on with life. I'm definitely in the new school thinking of work smarter not harder. I don't think Taurus did anything wrong with pointing you in the direction they did. Now, if you were unable to download the copy for whatever reason (such as not having a computer or internet connection) then, my assumption is they would have found a way to get you a hard copy.
I worked in DSL technical support for far too long. Someone mentioned earlier that portraying the situation to the customer would likely have satisfied the customer and typically I would agree with you on that. Most customers if presented a logical option and explanation to solve their problem will do so and leave happy, but then you do have those that want it their way and only their way and want you pampering them to any end and any use of logic on them is wasted. These are the people that end up posting things like this on forums. It doesn't take much thought to see why in this day and age that Taurus responded the way they did. It makes sense for them and the customer.
Sav .250
Member
"PDF"............ Sure is quick!
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
HA!
rodregier
Member
Documentation delivered on soiled, dead trees is so...20th century
What about public libraries, internet cafes, friends computers, internet-capable phones, govt subsidy programs...
Did you know there are well over 5 billion internet-capable devices in circulation? And forecast to be over 15 billion by 2015? That's more than two for every person on the planet.
If you have zero way to gain momentary access to an internet-capable device, you're simply not resourceful enough to be handling a firearm in the first place.
As for the "don't know how part", then learn. Or find someone to help, you know, at all those places I mentioned above. Taurus isn't asking you to write a PDF reader in assembly, just giving a PDF as a response to a voluntary request by someone who probably acquired the product second-hand.
So tired of this country having to dumb everything down for the lowest common denominator. Hey I know. Why doesn't Taurus just send a courier to hand-deliver the manual? Maybe he can bring along a pack of Charmin so he can wipe your *** for you while he's there...
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
In 1990, my professional C++ compiler cost about $300, came on roughly 25 3.5" disks, and also had no less than 10 printed manuals, each of which was a book in its own right. The box was about 3 feet long, and easily weighed about 20 lbs.
At that time, customer service call centers were considered a necessary cost of doing business, and so quality of documentation was considered a primary defense against incurring those costs.
That all changed over about 3 or 4 years. Compiler companies, out of necessity, started charging for their phone support. Overnight, what had once been a cost center became a profit center.
Immediately, the quality of the manuals began to plummet, until we were left with poorly written, barely comprehensible electronic documents shipped on CD.
Eventually, people started slamming them for it, and so the quality of the documents came up to within spitting distance of par.
And now, any manual for anything is available for anything on the 'Net.
All in all, not a bad trade.
At that time, customer service call centers were considered a necessary cost of doing business, and so quality of documentation was considered a primary defense against incurring those costs.
That all changed over about 3 or 4 years. Compiler companies, out of necessity, started charging for their phone support. Overnight, what had once been a cost center became a profit center.
Immediately, the quality of the manuals began to plummet, until we were left with poorly written, barely comprehensible electronic documents shipped on CD.
Eventually, people started slamming them for it, and so the quality of the documents came up to within spitting distance of par.
And now, any manual for anything is available for anything on the 'Net.
All in all, not a bad trade.
firemanstrickland
Member
There are reasons why company's like taurus keep there costs so low.......
X-JaVeN-X
Member
agreed
I was raised to "if you're going to act like a baby, then I will treat you like a baby".
At some point, you need to grow up and start taking care of yourself...parents need to get back to some basics on raising their kids. My 4 year old son can fix and make his own lunch. He can microwave his own meals, make sandwiches, pour his own drink, etc. He has chores he does (which he earns money for as I believe that it's never too early to start teaching a good work ethic). He can also hit a 20 oz. soda bottle with his bb gun from about 10 yds away. My wife and I get weird looks all the time for some of our parenting choices, but when he we hear things like "he has such good manners" and "I've seen 8 year olds that can't make their own lunch" kind of comments we know and believe we are doing the right thing. Even things like toys that have age limits....really...we have to be told when our children can play with a certain toy? It's almost comical.
I realize this is going a bit off topic, but is just a pet peeve of mine. We need to get better at taking care of ourselves and stop depending on everyone and everything else to do it for us. I enjoy new technology and gadgets as much as anyone, but I also know that they aren't a replacement for self-reliance and I take comfort in the fact that if sh*t hit the fan tomorrow, my wife and I both know how to grow and hunt our own food and could provide shelter and other necessities for our family if needed.
LibShooter
Member
Back in the day, everyone bought guns at local stores and paid 85 to 90 percent of MSRP. Margins allowed for overhead like pretty printed manuals and other such luxuries. Now everyone is chasing the absolutely lowest price, and websites make even a 2 dollar difference important to some shoppers.
I predict we'll see other things go the way of nicely bound manuals. Extra magazines are already gone for some guns. Look for nice cases or cardboard boxes to be replaced by disposable plastic packaging.
Remember when cars came with five real tires?
I predict we'll see other things go the way of nicely bound manuals. Extra magazines are already gone for some guns. Look for nice cases or cardboard boxes to be replaced by disposable plastic packaging.
Remember when cars came with five real tires?
afponiky
Member
Within the last month I read on the net that 23% of USA can't afford or doesn't know how to operate a computer.
Then they shouldn't own a gun in the first place!
This isn't even worth eating popcorn and watching this thread anymore..........
Then they shouldn't own a gun in the first place!
This isn't even worth eating popcorn and watching this thread anymore..........
To me, it really just sounded like he just wanted to complain. There are some people you just aren't going to please. I'd imagine that it was offered as a much simpler and quicker solution to the OPs problem. If he had said, he didn't have access, I would think they would have obliged him.
Of course the CS rep might have said "You're such a loser, you don't have a computer. No way you should have a gun if you don't have a computer! Lulz, lulz, lulz. Hah, ha!!!!!"
Maybe I'm wrong..... I kind of doubt it though.....
Maybe the OP could clear the air.... Did they flat out refuse to send you a manual?
RyanAnchors
Member
I have a 2GB flash drive that I paid $8 for. I can hold days worth of manuals on it.
Also, if someone can't afford a computer, how are they buying guns? lol (then again, I would sell my computer before I'd sell my last SD gun).
Additionally, the public library/local college almost always offers free internet access and often free or discounted printing :]
Also, if someone can't afford a computer, how are they buying guns? lol (then again, I would sell my computer before I'd sell my last SD gun).
Additionally, the public library/local college almost always offers free internet access and often free or discounted printing :]
parsimonious_instead
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I agree fully with the OP that it doesn't *feel* very polite, but it isn't unreasonable.
We're in the information age - anything that can be broken down into bits and bytes will be - it saves production cost and makes distribution both cheaper and near instantaneous.
In fact, I can see the "3d printing" revolution taken to its ultimate conclusion when instead of buying physical goods at a store or even online, we simply purchase the right to make a single unit on our home 3d mini-factories.
We're in the information age - anything that can be broken down into bits and bytes will be - it saves production cost and makes distribution both cheaper and near instantaneous.
In fact, I can see the "3d printing" revolution taken to its ultimate conclusion when instead of buying physical goods at a store or even online, we simply purchase the right to make a single unit on our home 3d mini-factories.
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