jacketed rounds in a Ruger old army

[docwharden1881]

I have seen two trains of thought on this. Would be interested in what others think.

1. Always use lead, nothing else
2. Jacketed bullets are safe and okay b/c the Ruger was built "Ford" tough and withstand the pressures.

I have a couple or Ruger single-actions but I am also one of those "annoying purists" so lead down range all of the way.

 

[Legionnaire]

I assume you're using a conversion cylinder. My ROAs have only seen lead, even when shooting cartridges. No point in stressing it. That's what the Blackhawk is for.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I assume you're using a conversion cylinder. My ROAs have only seen lead, even when shooting cartridges. No point in stressing it. That's what the Blackhawk is for.

Okay, I hadn't thought of using a conversion cylinder.
But, for the cap n' ball, a the bullet should be an interference fit in the chamber mouth, perhaps shaving off ring of lead when seating.
I cast some wheelweight balls, and could not seat them; the same would be true of jacketed bullets.
Our late Rangemaster, something of a storyteller, talked to Ruger customer service about using smokeless in an Old Army. The tech's voice, hearing this, went up three octaves.
Anyway, stick with (relatively soft) lead bullets for cap n' ball use.
Moon

 

[Legionnaire]

@halfmoonclip, exactly. The few cartridges I've shot through my ROA were loaded with black powder or light loads of Trail Boss. But a lot more lead over black powder in the original cylinder.

 

[Speedo66]

Is the opinion Ruger is using different quality steel for the black powder gun as opposed to their smokeless guns ?

Using two different steels would seem to me to be an unnecessary expense and add complication to their production process.

Besides, any modern gun quality steel couldn’t be compared to the iron or steel they were using in the black powder era.

I think you can shoot jacketed with no worries.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Is the opinion Ruger is using different quality steel for the black powder gun as opposed to their smokeless guns ?

Using two different steels would seem to me to be an unnecessary expense and add complication to their production process.

Besides, any modern gun quality steel couldn’t be compared to the iron or steel they were using in the black powder era.

I think you can shoot jacketed with no worries.

It's the same.
I shoot mostly FMJ's and JHP's in my Uberti 1860 with 45acp Kirst conversion cyl. No problem.

 

[OS/N]

In the ball and cap type I always feel better when yhe lead ring is shaved. Chain fires come to mind.

I would think jacketed is fine as long as you achive a gas seal. Maybe a patch or wad would help as its going to be hard to push the harder bullet in if its the correct size.

I only use base lead round balls and cast mushroom heeled bullets in black powder revolvers and always use black powder.

It's to easy to cast bullets and pure lead stick-on weights are easy to find free in my area.

About the only jacketed or purchased bullets I use now is for larger CF rifle ammo intended for hunting. Bullets just cost too much today to shoot at paper and cast works fine in handguns and carbines. I used to use a lot of Hornady Action Pistol jacketed bullets (bulk purchased) but since the prices went up and they are harder to find I don't even use those any longer. When cast from the correct alloy and a proper lube is used I don't see any difference in performance of lead vs jacketed bullets - some are even more accurate.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Only use black powder only, because even though the steel is proofed to handle it, it's still a vintage system that was designed only with black powder pressures in mind. Don't want a gas leak coming from behind the nipple.
That said, the Ruger Old Army is the most robust percussion revolver ever.

 

[doubleh]

Ruger stated that it couldn't/can't be overloaded using black powder and I have tested that with 4f and round balls. Lot's of white smoke and cracks instead of booms. I wouldn't ever consider loading it with smokeless powder even in cartridges. I bought mine because it was supposed to be the top of the line cap and ball revolver ever made. I believe that to still be true and that is what I wanted. If I feel the need to shoot smokeless there is always the BlackHawk, Super version, and Vaquero and a host of Italian imitations of the Colt SAA. Why take a chance on damaging a perfectly good BP gun and yourself in the process? If you just have to do it buy one of the aftermarket cylinders that is safe. I even considered that a few years ago and then that little flag with "Why" written on it popped into my mind and I dropped that idea.

 

[armoredman]

I decided to try smokeless in a cap and ball revolver, but I used the Howell conversion cylinder.

With light powder coated lead loads;

Didn't do too bad.

However, the conversion cylinder with my first black powder cartridge loads didn't do well - wrong bullet/lube combination. Fun to watch.

From what I have been told, the Ruger Old Army, (one of my Grail Guns), s over built like all Ruger revolvers and can handle loads of smokeless powder. However, prudence and common sense say might wanna stick with what it's supposed to shoot in its original form, black and loose ball/wad. Get a Howell or Kirst is you want to shoot smokeless/jacketed in it.

 

[OS/N]

I use a howell in my 61 but only with black. Trim 38 spl cases down to 38 super length, load .375 130 grain heeled bullets, with around 15-1/2 grns of 2f black. It is my version of the first cartridge conversions that eventually became the 38 colt long which had the smaller diameter bullets. Loaded OAL is the same as colt longs but brass is shorter and bullet lube is exposed. The heeled bullets don't seat as deep.

They run around 750 fps from an 8" barrel and are about as accurate as round balls. They are much better for carry on walks in the woods in a holster because the caps aren't there to fall off and its simpler to unload if you don't shoot it. Easier to clean also.

The cylinder is made from 4150 steel so much stronger than the old steels but howell states to only use black powder and the gun design is still the open top type which has its limitations.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

130 grain heeled bullets,

Where is this mold?

 

[armoredman]

Must be an old Howell -they all say now just don't use jacketed or hot loads, only loads that don't exceed 850 FPS, ne restriction to black powder only. I found one that works pretty good, just going to load it up and have fun.

 

[OS/N]

Where is this mold?

The trick is crimping with a bullet the same size as the case. I use a 35 rem FCD, a spacer, and put the cartridge down from the top. Dip in hot lube after loading. The correct dies maybe availble but I use a combination of 38spl and 9mm and swap around the inside parts to make em work. It's a std LEE mould but you have to check some of the cowboy sights to find in stock. I don't shoot them that often but try to keep 18ea loaded. They are cool but kind of a PITA to load.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

The trick is crimping with a bullet the same size as the case. I use a 35 rem FCD, a spacer, and put the cartridge down from the top. Dip in hot lube after loading. The correct dies maybe availble but I use a combination of 38spl and 9mm and swap around the inside parts to make em work. It's a std LEE mould but you have to check some of the cowboy sights to find in stock. I don't shoot them that often but try to keep 18ea loaded. They are cool but kind of a PITA to load.
View attachment 1206912

You are firing them in an original?

 

[docwharden1881]

You are firing them in an original?

most likely a reproduction w/ a conversion cylinder

 

[CraigC]

It's a non-issue. Pressure is not a concern if you follow your loading data or use factory ammo. The guns don't care about jacketed bullets.

The cylinder is made from 4150 steel so much stronger than the old steels but howell states to only use black powder and the gun design is still the open top type which has its limitations.

No they don't. They have an 850fps velocity ceiling with no mention of powder type.

It's also been well proven that the open top design is not the weakness that people once thought. Or we wouldn't have a .45ACP conversion for them from Kirst.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Do have an Uberti 71-72 Open Top, and feed it full charge wadcutters, with copper plated bullets. It works just fine.
Factory cartridge conversions sometimes seem a little vague on what loads are okay, leaving them some wiggle room if someone blows one up.
Love the looks of Open Tops; had a Mason-Richards, until the nickel Open Top stole my heart. Really handsome revo.
With no top strap, they make an odd 'blat' when fired.
Moon

 

[OS/N]

I have a howell 38 long colt cyl for a steel frame 61 reproduction cap and ball revolver. Its only a couple years old. The barrel needs a 375 bullet. Instructions that came with the cyl say to use 38spl cases loaded with 358 dia HBWC and black powder full up to the bullet base. The cyl is full .375 cut with no throat. The lead HBWCs would self size to the 375 bore but I prefer to load the heeled 375 bullets to be more like the original loading.

The 44/45 conversions don't require a oversized bullet like the 36 navy type. If you get a factory conversion navy mdl it may have a 357 bore but I'm not sure - the 36 cap and ball mdls shoot 375 size bullets.