Jailed for possesion of a firearm ?

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NukemJim

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Hello, requesting assistance please. In a discussion with a LEO friend I made the statement that people (with a clean record, no felons,priors or domestic violence convictions) had been arrested, convicted and sent to jail in this country for possesion of an unloaded firearm.

My friend disagreed and maintained that anyone had to have been doing something else illegal or was not allowed to possess a firearm for other reasons (felony conviction, priors or domestic violence convictions etc...)

I strongly believe that I have read of such cases IIRC in Mass prior to FOPA (1986) or New York City. However my Google-Fu is not stong, I do not have access to Lexus/Nexus and search on this and other forums have not been succesfull.

I am looking for a name or names and any other data of someone who

A) Is not under federal law a "prohibited person"
B) Not commiting another crime at the time
C) Was convicted and sent to jail for POSSESION ONLY of a firearm (this would include those who did not "Register" their firearm(s).
D) No NFA, SBR, SBS, suppressors, etc involved

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

NukemJim
 
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There are tons of people who are not prohibited from possessing firearms under 18USC922(g), that have been sent to prison for possessing firearms only. Those firearms were "unregistered" as you point out in part C.

Those firearms include, short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, silencers, machineguns, destructive devices and AOWs.

If you have no felonies, aren't a drug user, have no DV convictions, etc, but you are in possession of an unregistered pipe bomb (destructive device which is a firearm under the NFA) or an unregistered shotgun with a 14" barrel, etc, etc, you can be prosecuted for possessing those unregistered firearms.
 
Yeah, NFA is no joke. I would not even dream of trying to chop down a barrel without having the tax stamp sitting right in front of me. Nothing to play around with.
 
NY state, I believe, is the major offender in this category. Simple possession of a handgun, with narrow exceptions, can be a problem. I believe IL, MA, and maybe a couple others require their own residents to have a permit for mere possession (or at least allow out of staters to get the required permit). What makes NY different is that non-residents are subjet to the possession prohibitions but are NOT able to obtain a general permit to possess AND they tend to do a really good job of ignoring the federal "peaceable journey" law when enforcing their own law. Apparently they do this on the theory that if you want your federal gun rights, you should have to pay a lawyer for them.

I don't have any cases for you, but I would start narrowing your search to New York. Good luck, and let us know what you turn up.

RmeJu
 
In Counties where Fireams Registration is required by the Sheriff, one can be arrested for posession of an unregistered conventional Firearm, and, I assume, fined, and or sentenced to Jail also, in addition to forfeiting the Arm.

Can be...( does not mean necessarily one would be) .

This indepentent of any Federal conditions.
 
I'm sure there are too many incidences to enumerate of people being detained/arrested (even jailed) for possession of a firearm, even though it was lawful. The reason you're gonna have trouble tracking them down is that they did not result in any kind of conviction, since no laws were actually broken.

LEO's have a certain amount of immunity when they act on "good faith" and make an arrest. Sometimes it really is good faith, sometimes they're just abusive jerks. Either way, there's not much recourse for someone unless they can prove that an officer had no cause to arrest them. Your word against theirs most of the time, and the majority of folks are happy to simply be released when it is discovered that they cannot be charged.

I've been forced to exit my vehicle and sit on a curb for an hour while a cop ran my serial numbers to make sure the guns weren't stolen (I had two rifles hanging in the back window of my truck). Was that fair? No. He had no reason to believe they were stolen, just wanted to hassle me. Sure, I had places to be and things to get done, and he made me late. Was it worth making a big stink over that would likely only cause me further aggravation and make me a target to that police force later? No way. I had nothing to gain from pushing the issue, except maybe him getting a stern "don't do that" from his superiors, which I wouldn't even be privy to seeing.
 
Try the NRA Legal Defense Fund

I suspect they have a lot of info along the lines that you want. I believe they defended a man who was LEGALLY carrying a gun his his checked bags, but his flight had a maintenance issue and he had to stay overnight near NYC. His bags were offloaded and given to him, so when he tried to re-board, and declared his gun as he check in his luggage, he was arrested. Anyway, check the NRA. I'm real sure they successfully defened the guy, but a lot of others in his shoes must have lost their cases.

- - - Yoda
 
Here is one name for you, Gregory Girard

'Find Me the Man, I'll Find the Crime'
by William Norman Grigg
by William Norman Grigg
Recently by William Norman Grigg: The Greyhound Station Gulag





All of the serious charges against Gregory Girard have been dropped, yet he remains behind bars and denied bail until the people responsible for putting him there can devise a suitable "crime" to justify his imprisonment.

This task shouldn't tax the malicious creativity of the Salem County Prosecutor, given that Girard, a resident of Manchester-by-the-sea, Massachusetts, is a middle-aged male gun owner and unreconstructed "right-wing extremist."

As Josef Stalin's secret police chief Lavrenti Beria put it: Find me the man, and I'll find the crime.

In early February, police learned of Girard's unremarkable gun collection – invariably described as an "arsenal" or "cache" by the statist stenographers who call themselves local journalists – when his wife, a psychiatrist, told them that she was afraid to return to their home following an argument.

Among the specific concerns related to the police by Girard's wife was his supposedly alarming view that martial law is imminent.

Since it is unacceptable for people to believe that government agents will carry out paramilitary raids to confiscate firearms, a paramilitary force was sent to Girard’s home to confiscate his firearms.

Stormtroopers from CART, the ATF, and the state police surrounded the condo, evacuated two units, and then called Girard to invite him outside. Seeing his home surrounded by a ring of heavily armed, black-clad bucketheads clearly possessing malign intent, Girard understandably declined the invitation. After the police barged into his home, Girard put up no resistance, beyond insisting that his "hand grenades" were innocuous and perfectly legal smoke grenades.

The first media accounts of the incident were a bulimic recital of pre-chewed soundbites fed to the press by the police.

Girard’s collection of "approximately twenty" firearms – in fact, he owned 11 rifles and two handguns, all legally purchased and duly registered – suddenly became an "an alarming, nearly military-grade stockpile."

The article continues but suffices to say that he meets your qualifications
 
NY state, I believe, is the major offender in this category. Simple possession of a handgun, with narrow exceptions, can be a problem. I believe IL, MA, and maybe a couple others require their own residents to have a permit for mere possession (or at least allow out of staters to get the required permit). What makes NY different is that non-residents are subjet to the possession prohibitions but are NOT able to obtain a general permit to possess AND they tend to do a really good job of ignoring the federal "peaceable journey" law when enforcing their own law. Apparently they do this on the theory that if you want your federal gun rights, you should have to pay a lawyer for them.

I don't have any cases for you, but I would start narrowing your search to New York. Good luck, and let us know what you turn up.

RmeJu
Can't mention NY and forget the neighboring people republic on NJ. You need a FOP to posses... that's right.
 
Can't remember the dude's name, but I remember a story about a guy that won a .22 at a benefit auction, or as a door prize or somesuch. It was a tube fed semi-auto, and the tube capacity was 16 or so rounds. Years (many) later and something came up (break-in, fire, whatever) and that dusty .22 that he'd never even shot and still had the tag hanging off it came to the attention of NJ constabulary. He went down for possesion of an assault weapon. Took it to the NJ state supreme court and they upheld the conviction. A comment from one of the "justices" was that when dealing with firearms "the citizen acts at his peril".
 
IIRC, try Morton Grove, IL When the first big time gun ban went into effect, the guy that eventually brought the federal suit was arrested for possessing a handgun.
 
A friend of mine became a cop but during his background investigation they found that he had been arrested in a small town in Tennessee for a concealed weapons violation. This was a huge red flag but there was no conviction. Upon further investigation it was found that he was arrested for having an opened pocket knife in the console of his vehicle. The charge never went anywhere but my buddy did have to bond out of jail. You would be surprised what you can get charged with since the prerequisites for most police departments is a heartbeat and a GED.
 
Anybody know anything more about what Girard's wife said about him? John


"Girard's wife said her husband had recently told her: "Don't talk to people, shoot them instead," and "it's fine to shoot people in the head because traitors deserve it."…"


Edited to add: www.gloucestertimes.com/local/x878575746/Ready-for-Armageddon

His wife is a psychiatrist and turned him in for increasingly bizarre behavior. JT
 
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I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for.

For many years, Marion County, Indiana (Indianapolis) has been putting people in jail for possession of a handgun without a license.

The policy of the prosecutor's office has been to seek a thirty day jail sentence (fifteen actual days in jail) for any possession of a handgun without a license. Kind of like a zero tolerance policy, the sentencing recommendation is the same for a gang banger who never had a license and a forty year old housewife whose license expired last month.

Usually the handguns are loaded, but there may be a case where the gun was unloaded (the crime of possession without a license does not require that the handgun be loaded).

Unfortunately, I have no idea how you could search the records.
 
How Illinois became ill...

F irearm O wner ID entification. Guns are recorded by sale, owners are recorded by state police issued foid card. No card, no gun sales. No card, no "proper" gun possession.

Google "Hale De Mar" he shot the thief who returned to steal his car and was charged with illegal possession and violation of the (now extinct) Wilmette, Il. handgun ban. Wilmette was named defendant in McDonald v. Chicago (etal) but, as all others save Oak Park, capitulated and rescinded their handgun bans.

Update: Mayor Daleys gun ban continues to be effective, only 113 citizens have been killed by gunfire in Chicago this year (thru 4/28). Now certain Chicago state reps are calling for the National Guard to be deployed! More guns for the state, more killing for the citizens.:fire::cuss:
 
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for.

For many years, Marion County, Indiana (Indianapolis) has been putting people in jail for possession of a handgun without a license.

The policy of the prosecutor's office has been to seek a thirty day jail sentence (fifteen actual days in jail)

Is this for possesion only for for carrying without a permit?:confused:

I did not know that the Indy area registered guns!:what:


NukemJim
PS as far as "Hale De Mar" I do not believe he was convicted, they tried but did not do so and I do not believe he served jail time for a conviction. The original post reads
C) Was convicted and sent to jail for POSSESION ONLY of a firearm
emphasis in the original NJ
 
On October 21, 1996 the Superior Court of New Jersey, Appellate Division upheld Joseph Pelleteri's conviction for possessing an "assault firearm", specifically, a Marlin Model 60 .22 caliber rifle.

This is why, IMHO, residents of New Jersey should possess nothing that even approaches the definition of an "Assault Firearm". So, if you have a semi-auto with a pistol grip, do not have a compensator that might be confused with a flash suppressor. Do not have a 15 round magazine because someone might be able to cram a 16th round in. If you have a semi-suto shotgun do not have a magazine extension anywhere in your possession which could extend the capacity above six shells. If you want to cut the barrel of your shotgun down to riot gun length have it done by a professional gunsmith, put it in writing that you want the barrel to be at least 18.25 inches, and measure it three times on the inside to a closed bolt with a dowel or rod before you bring it home. New Jersey does allow its residents to have some fine firearms that are well suited to home defense and preserving the security of a free State (such as the Model 12 and post-ban semi-autos) but the police, the prosecutors and the Courts take the lines they have drawn in the sand very seriously.

Complete opinion in Pelleteri follows:

Cite as State v. Pelleteri, 294 N.J.Super. 330 (1996)

STATE of New Jersey, Plaintiff-Respondent,

v.

Joseph PELLETERI, Defendant-Appellant.

Superior Court of New Jersey, Appellate Division.

Argued Oct. 2, 1996.

Decided Oct. 21, 1996.

Joseph T. Afflitto, Sr., Wayne, for defendant-appellant
(Afflitto, Raimondi & Afflitto, attorneys; Joseph T. Afflitto, Sr.,
of counsel and on the brief).

Thomas E. Bracken, Assistant Sussex County Prosecutor, for
plaintiff-respondent (Dennis O'Leary, Prosecutor, attorney; Mr.
Bracken, on the letter-brief).

Before Judges SHEBELL, [footnote 1] BAIME, and BRAITHWAITE.

The opinion of the court was delivered by BAIME, J.AD.

On May 30, 1990, our Legislature proscribed the "knowing"
possession of "assault firearms." N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5f. Persons
legally in possession of such firearms prior to the effective date
of the statute could retain these weapons by obtaining the
appropriate registration. N.J.S.A. 2C:58-12. Included in the
definition of "assault firearm" is "[a] semi-automatic rifle with
a fixed magazine capacity exceeding [fifteen] rounds." N.J.S.R
2C:39-1w(4). Defendant was convicted of "knowingly" having in his
possession an assault firearm, a semi-automatic rifle with a
magazine capacity of seventeen cartridges. He appeals, contending
that the trial judge erred by rejecting his claims of mistake of
law and mistake of fact, and by instructing the jury it could
convict if it found he knowingly possessed the weapon even if he
did not know its fixed capacity exceeded fifteen rounds. We
affirm.

I.

We need not recount the facts at length. Defendant, an expert
marksman who at one point was employed as a firearms instructor,
won a Marlin semi-automatic rifle in the late 1980's by placing
first in a police combat match. An avid gun collector, defendant
placed the weapon in his safe. Defendant claimed that he neither
inspected nor used the firearm. When the police recovered the gun
from defendant's residence in December 1993, it still had the
manufacturer's tags and the owner's manual attached to the trigger
guard. The owner's manual indicated that the rifle could hold at
least seventeen cartridges. Defendant claimed that he never read
the manual. While conceding that he knew the rifle was a
semi-automatic weapon, defendant contended that he was unaware that
the firearm had a magazine capacity exceeding fifteen rounds.

At trial, defendant advanced the defenses of mistake of law
and mistake of fact. He asserted that he made diligent inquiry
respecting whether the guns in his collection constituted "assault
firearms" when the 1990 legislation was enacted and obtained the
requisite registration for some of his weapons. Defendant testified
that he did not register the Marlin rifle because he did not know
its fixed capacity exceeded fifteen rounds. The trial judge barred
the defenses of mistake of law and mistake of fact on the grounds
that the statutory prohibition was clearly written and published,
and that knowledge of the specific character of the weapon did not
constitute an element of the offense. In response to a question
propounded by the jury during its deliberations, the judge charged
that defendant could be found guilty if he knowingly possessed the
firearm but was unaware that its fixed capacity exceeded fifteen
rounds. Defendant was convicted and placed on probation.

II.

Defendant couches his argument in terms of whether the trial
judge erred by barring the defenses of mistake of law and mistake
of fact. We find no merit in these arguments. R. 2:11-3(e)(2). As
to the defense of mistake of law, defendant did not prove by "clear
and convincing evidence" that he "diligently pursue[d] all means
available to ascertain the meaning and application" of the
statutory proscription. N.J.S.A. 2C:2-4c(3). By its very terms,
N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w(4) defines an "assault firearm" as a
"semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding
[fifteen] rounds." The statutory language is "neither vague nor
unclear," and was not an issue for the jury's consideration. State
v. Elrose, 277 N.J.Super. 548, 556, 649 A.2d 1351 (App.Div.1994).

The defense of mistake of fact suffered from much the same
infirmity. The common law defense required not only that the
defendant subjectively misperceive a fact critical to establishing
the offense but also that the error be reasonable. See State v.
Bess, 53 N.J. 10, 16, 247 A.2d 669 (1968); State v. Fair, 45 N.J
77, 91, 211 A.2d 359 (1965). The Criminal Law Revision Commission
recommended that the objective test be abrogated and that any
"honest" error suffice to exonerate the defendant. Final Report of
the New Jersey Criminal Law Revision Commission, comment to 2C:2-4
at 52-53 (1971). Our Legislature rejected that proposal by
requiring that the defendant "reasonably arrive[ ] at the
conclusion underlying the mistake." N.J.S.R 2C:2-4a. Defendant's
failure to inspect the weapon or read the owner's manual to
determine whether it fell within the statutory definition
was unreasonable as a matter of law. We find no error in the trial
judge's refusal to submit the issue to the jury.

III.

The prosecutor candidly points out that the trial judge
instructed the jury that defendant could be found guilty if he
knowingly possessed the firearm but was unaware its fixed capacity
exceeded fifteen rounds. The question squarely presented is whether
the State was required to prove that the defendant knew the gun in
his possession was an assault firearm. We hold that knowledge of
the character of the weapon is not an element of the offense.

N.J.S.A 2C:39-5f provides in pertinent part that "[a]ny person
who knowingly has in his possession an assault firearm is guilty of
a crime of the third degree." The word "knowingly" thus modifies
the phrase "has in his possession." The Code defines "possession"
in terms of whether the "possessor knowingly procured or received
the thing possessed or was aware of his control [of it] for a
sufficient period to have been able to terminate his possession."
N.J.S.R 2C:2-1c. The Code provides that "a person acts knowingly
with respect to the nature of his conduct ... if he is aware that
his conduct is of that nature." N.J.S.R 2C:2-2b(2).

We are satisfied that the Legislature intended to proscribe
knowing possession, as distinguished from knowledge of the
illegal character of the article possessed. Cf. State v. Labato, 7
N.J. 137, 148, 80 A.2d 617 (1951). In that context, "[k]nowing
possession is not to be confused with criminal intent or guilty
knowledge." Id at 149, 80 A.2d 617. "At common law, scienter [was]
an indispensable element." Ibid. But it is with in the power of
the Legislature to declare an act criminal irrespective of the
motive of the actor. Ibid.; see also United States v. Freed 401 U.S
601, 610, 91 S.Ct. 1112, 1118, 28 L.Ed.2d 356, 362 (1971); United
States v. Balint, 258 U.S. 250, 254, 42 S.Ct. 301, 303, 66 L.Ed
604, 606 (1922); United States v. Holland, 810 F.2d 1215, 1223
(D.C.Cir.), cert. denied, 481 U.S. 1057, 107 S.Ct. 2199, 95
L.Ed.2d 854 (1987); State v. Edwards, 257 N.J.Super. 1, 4, 607 A.2d
1312 (App.Div. 1992); State v. Torres, 236 N.J.Super. 6, 13, 563
A.2d 1141 (App.Div.1989).

We are concerned here with a statute dealing with gun control.
"New Jersey has carefully constructed a 'grid' of regulations" on
the subject. In re Two Seized Firearms, 127 N.J. 84, 88, 602 A.2d
728, cert. denied sub nom Sholtis v. New Jersey, 506 U.S. 823, 113
S.Ct. 75, 121 L.Ed.2d 40 (1992). This is an area in which
"regulations abound and inquiries are likely," and where the
overarching purpose is to insure the public safety and protect
against acts and threats of violence. State v. Hatch, 64 N.J. 179,
184, 313 A.2d 797 (1973); see also Burton v. Sills, 53 N.J. 86, 248
A.2d 521 (1968). "[T]he dangers are so high and the regulations so
prevalent that, on balance, the legislative branch may as a matter
of sound public policy and without impairing any constitutional
guarantees, declare the act itself unlawful without any further
requirement of mens rea or its equivalent." State v. Hatch, 64 N.J.
at 184-85, 313 A.2d 797. When dealing with guns, the citizen acts
at his peril. In short, we view the statute as a regulatory measure
in the interests of the public safety, premised on the thesis that
one would hardly be surprised to learn that possession of such a
highly dangerous offensive weapon is proscribed absent the
requisite license.

Affirmed.

FOOTNOTES

1. Judge Shebell did not participate in oral argument. However, the
parties consented to his participation in the decision subsequent
to argument.
 
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I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for.

For many years, Marion County, Indiana (Indianapolis) has been putting people in jail for possession of a handgun without a license.

The policy of the prosecutor's office has been to seek a thirty day jail sentence (fifteen actual days in jail)
Is this for possesion only for for carrying without a permit?

The crime is possession of a handgun without a permit. Indiana does not register guns, but requires a permit to carry or transport a handgun in public. If a person in Indiana does not have a "License to Carry Handgun," possession of a handgun outside a person's home or business is illegal. Therefore, if a person is pulled over for a traffic offense and a handgun is discovered, the person is arrested and charged with possession of a handgun without a license. People in Indiana (and I know specifically in Marion County) have been convicted and jailed for simple possession of a handgun because they failed obtain a license to carry the handgun.

The offense: "Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession." Ind. Code § 35-47-2-1(a).

A specific case: State of Indiana v. James E. Winters. Appellate decision reported at 719 N.E.2d 1279 (1999). Court of Appeals Cause No. 49A02-9812-CR-953.
The only charge filed and the only conviction obtained was for possession of a handgun without a license. Winters was in a motel room where the handgun was found. I have no idea whether Winters was a convicted felon or on probation, etc., and the prosecutor did not bother to file the enhanced charges. I do not know what the sentence was, but Taylor Baker was the presiding judge, so there is a good chance there was jail time imposed (if Winters did not make bond, it may have been simply credit for time served).

Richard G. Tormoehlen was convicted in Clinton County, Indiana, of possession of handgun without a license. The nine millimeter handgun was in the glove compartment and the magazine was in the trunk. The handgun was discovered after Tormoehlen wrecked on an icy road. It does not appear that Tormoehlen received a jail sentence for his conviction of an unloaded weapon. Tormoehlen v. State, 848 N.E.2d 326 (Ind. Ct. App. 2006).

Maybe these are not the type of cases you are looking for (or maybe I am getting close)?
 
Jimmy Robertson was convicted for possession of a handgun without a license when he stepped into the hallway outside his apartment. The police were responding to a domestic battery call. The State dismissed the battery charge and the only conviction was the handgun charge. The Indiana Court of Appeals reversed, finding the hallway outside the apartment was part of the person's dwelling. The Indiana Supreme Court reversed the Court of Appeals and affirmed the trial court. Robertson v. State, 765 N.E.2d 138 (Ind. 2002).

The trial judge was Richard Sallee, so there is a good chance Robertson did not receive a jail sentence (but he may have, I just don't know).
 
vanagon40 THANK YOU that is EXACTLY the kind of data I wanted. I was begining to despair due to some people on this board being either unable or unwilling to read.

I was not aware of the requirement to have a permit to have your gun outside your home thank you.

Thanks again

NukemJim
 
You are welcome. I can assure you that lots of people have served two week jail sentences for possession of a handgun without a license.

If you really wanted hard data or specific cases, you might contact the Marion County Prosecutor's Office, the Marion County Public Defender's Office, or private criminal defense attorneys in Indianapolis.

Good luck.
 
You mean like me? :D

I wasn't sentenced to jail but I sure spent some time in there locked up until I gave them bail money.

In my state a firearm is not allowed to be inside the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Loaded or not. This was before shall issue but it still applies to anyone without a permit. The sentence is a felony and worth up to 5 years in prison.

I told them we'll see what the Supreme Court thinks about their intrusion on my second amendment rights and they decided to convict me on an "illegal transportation of a firearm" charge, gave me a year probation, and expunge the record upon completion. I can live with that since they didn't confiscate my other guns. They did in fact return my shotgun whch was also in the vehicle only charging me for the pistol.

ETA - My vehicle was an old pickup truck. The guns were brought into the passenger compartment because it was raining.
 
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I was not aware of the requirement to have a permit to have your gun outside your home thank you.

That doesn't apply here. A person can possess a weapon anywhere on their own property in my state. We can also conceal it without a permit on our own property. Even the obligation to inform law enforcement you are carrying concealed (which is a permit requirement in public) becomes void on our own property.
 
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