longeyes
member
Agree, but... You will find that both CIA and State are loaded up with Ivy Leaguers who march to their own globalist drummer.
Japanese say U.S. can't win war with China, U.S forces incompetent
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longeyes
member
Wal-mart's rise is concomitant with the rise of illegal immigration. Not only do they have a lot of illegals working there, they have a LOT of illegals shopping there. Wal-mart, the Chinese, illegal immigration--all related.
Silver Bullet
Member
Well said.
Nearly word-for-word what I was going to say. I wasn’t going to use the word “illustrious,” though.
They’re probably waiting for President Hillary.
robertbank
Member
Maybe it is time to tell our politicians that appealing to patriotism and nationalism isn't enought to declare a country a bad guy/good guy anymore. We live on a rather small planet and I doubt China is about to attack one of their best customers for their goods and services and I doubt the US would want to either. Just a lot of nonsense to justify more military spending on more weapons that will never be used.
Strange to me that we humans have such a propensity to self destruct.
There is no glory in war accept for those who survive it and they know better.
Stay Safe
Strange to me that we humans have such a propensity to self destruct.
There is no glory in war accept for those who survive it and they know better.
Stay Safe
longeyes
member
We could be good Chinese customers and also Chinese subjects, of course...
Never underestimate the power of irrationality. Would such a war be stupid? Sure. Will it happen? All bets are off. History is a concatenation of irrational events.
Never underestimate the power of irrationality. Would such a war be stupid? Sure. Will it happen? All bets are off. History is a concatenation of irrational events.
kbarrett
Member
He just wants to justify a bigger budget for the Japanese military.
Being stuck with a small "Self-Defence" force just sticks in his craw.
Being stuck with a small "Self-Defence" force just sticks in his craw.
UnknownSailor
Member
mindpilot said:The USS Enterprise the Powerful Nuclear Flagship (once) of the USN will be harboured at Japan starting in 2006. If they need any reminder of how quickly we can erase the far East off the map...they should go down to Tokyo Harbour and take a gander at that piece of Hardware!
WRONG
USS Kitty Hawk will remain until 2008, whereupon the Vinson (CVN-70) will replace her.
Enterprise will be decomissioning in the not to distant future, once USS George Bush comes online.
hso said:
heres the thing. its not so much a question of using nuclear weapons, but of the political reprocussions of using strategic bombing on population centers and industry after we destroy the chinese airforce.
How would we gain destroy the chinese airforce you may say? easy. the chinese airforce relies on anitquated aircraft much as the iraqis did in the first persian gulf war. yes they are three times the size of our air force, but i think we have shown clearly that old arms have no chance in the air. im sure some of you will also say that "in the persian gulf sadam didnt have access to mig-29s and su-27s." True, but we have also shown in the "Red Oktober" war games against the Luftwaffe that even our F-18s which, of course, are not main line fighters can hold their own and usually come out on top against the best trained mig pilots in the world. Combine that with our F-15s, F-14s, and if given a few years the F-22 theres no one in the world that can stand up to our airpower.
Now after we bomb the hell out of them, if they dont give up, now you have to consider the ground war. I think that depends greatly on where it going to be. Do we invade or do they invade? If we invade not only do we have to contend with massive human wave attacks by their 1.2 million man army, but we have to worry about supply lines. Shooting up 45,000 tanks takes alot of our Abrams sabot rounds if you catch my drift. I believe that casualties on both sides would be totally unacceptable. I think better that we would sit back in japan and destroy their assets on the sea where they would be nearly unprotected.
Now after my rambling, going back to what i had originally said, this all is dependant on the US population and if its willing to stomach a total war. What i think most of the american pop has forgotten is that war is a horrible thing. They try to lessen it by fighting a limited war. All that does is drag the whole wretched thing out longer. We seen this in vietnam and were seeing it now in iraq. Maybe im just being insensitive, i dont know.
Feel free to reply to, bash, etc, etc my post. I always enjoy a good debate.
Deadman
Member
We would have to resort to using nuclear weapons to stop China at the current time. It has nothing to do with the "competence" of our conventional military though; rather a simple matter of resources and numbers.
We can of course thank the current President and his administration, aided and abetted by a complicit U.S. Congress, for ensuring that China could achieve the position it now holds over us. That may be our undoing - militarily or economically.
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We can of course thank the current President and his administration, aided and abetted by a complicit U.S. Congress, for ensuring that China could achieve the position it now holds over us. That may be our undoing - militarily or economically.
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http://ssunitedstates.org
Manedwolf
member
longeyes said:
Exactly. I remember seeing the shutdown of Bethlehem Steel in PA, the blue furnace glows going out one by one as seen from across the river.
Very sad.
And if China has far, far too much of our debt. They could pull the plug on the US economy at any time.
Borachon
Member
We would have tough time fighting them. No doubt about that.
Our technological advantage presupposes that we are able to get those assets into the field to use them, and that they aren't facing a 50 to 1 scenario. Who cares if Chinese planes are less advanced than US planes? If you are facing 50 less advanced planes to your 1, you're gonna lose.
The same reasons why China won't invade the US also make it problematic for the US to put assets in place to face China. The distance involved...the politics of convincing people to fight on your side....etc.
Someone questioned China's ability to move troops. Something about not having enough shipping. Chinese merchant vessals are some of the most prolific in the world. They've got more ships than the US does to move people.
And no place in SE Asia is really all that far to move them.
Our technological advantage presupposes that we are able to get those assets into the field to use them, and that they aren't facing a 50 to 1 scenario. Who cares if Chinese planes are less advanced than US planes? If you are facing 50 less advanced planes to your 1, you're gonna lose.
The same reasons why China won't invade the US also make it problematic for the US to put assets in place to face China. The distance involved...the politics of convincing people to fight on your side....etc.
Someone questioned China's ability to move troops. Something about not having enough shipping. Chinese merchant vessals are some of the most prolific in the world. They've got more ships than the US does to move people.
And no place in SE Asia is really all that far to move them.
Sylvilagus Aquaticus
Member
Art's right on track.
As for myself, I see that the economy of the PRC is largely there to support the People's Liberation Army, which, in turn, does turn out quite a bit of the durable goods imported worldwide to bring hard currency and technology back into the country. I'm concerned for the American economy if Sino-American relations sour and they decide to take economics more seriously, although they're not yet a big player in the consumer market, no matter what the news says, at least on a per capita basis.
The Chinese have quite probably the best human intelligence apparatus of the last 40 years. They certainly had one of the best 750 years ago, when Marco Polo met them and they convinced him that they were a society inferior in all regards to Europeans of the day. Unfortunately, the silk trade had been flourishing through central Asia and the Middle East for a couple of centuries prior to the time western Europeans crossed the Caucasus heading back east.
Disagree? Didn't they just pick up 2 naturalized American Chinese along with two resident alien Chinese realtives who were taking data disks back to 2PLA handlers in Hong Kong? And he was a project lead engineer for the Navy? (citation - http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/15/spy.charges/index.html)
National intelligence believes that now they know more about our ships, armament and capabilites than we know about their entire country.
I'd say the Japanese are afraid of their turn in the barrel after all they did to China over the years. They don't want to talk about what the Koreans would want to do to them.
As far as the Japanese casting aspersions on the Americans, they had their opportunity in the 1980's when Toyota had over 4 billion dollars in cash on hand reserves, for an example, with Mitsubishi and Fuji Heavy Industries doing equally well. That was before the Japanese economy stagnated, the yen tanked against the dollar, and their government convulsed into a coma from scandal.
To run an old saw, "Built in America by lazy, ignorant Americans, tested in Japan. Twice"
Enough for now. I got here late anyway.
Regards,
Rabbit.
As for myself, I see that the economy of the PRC is largely there to support the People's Liberation Army, which, in turn, does turn out quite a bit of the durable goods imported worldwide to bring hard currency and technology back into the country. I'm concerned for the American economy if Sino-American relations sour and they decide to take economics more seriously, although they're not yet a big player in the consumer market, no matter what the news says, at least on a per capita basis.
The Chinese have quite probably the best human intelligence apparatus of the last 40 years. They certainly had one of the best 750 years ago, when Marco Polo met them and they convinced him that they were a society inferior in all regards to Europeans of the day. Unfortunately, the silk trade had been flourishing through central Asia and the Middle East for a couple of centuries prior to the time western Europeans crossed the Caucasus heading back east.
Disagree? Didn't they just pick up 2 naturalized American Chinese along with two resident alien Chinese realtives who were taking data disks back to 2PLA handlers in Hong Kong? And he was a project lead engineer for the Navy? (citation - http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/15/spy.charges/index.html)
National intelligence believes that now they know more about our ships, armament and capabilites than we know about their entire country.
I'd say the Japanese are afraid of their turn in the barrel after all they did to China over the years. They don't want to talk about what the Koreans would want to do to them.
As far as the Japanese casting aspersions on the Americans, they had their opportunity in the 1980's when Toyota had over 4 billion dollars in cash on hand reserves, for an example, with Mitsubishi and Fuji Heavy Industries doing equally well. That was before the Japanese economy stagnated, the yen tanked against the dollar, and their government convulsed into a coma from scandal.
To run an old saw, "Built in America by lazy, ignorant Americans, tested in Japan. Twice"
Enough for now. I got here late anyway.
Regards,
Rabbit.
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