The body of the little 9 year old girl in Florida was found this morning buried 150 yards from her home. John Evander Couey confessed to killing the little girl and told the authorities where the body could be found. I am completely outraged. This country had better wisen up. Many of the same Stupid Assed People that want to disarm the American public are the same SAP that fight for the rights of criminals. It's the same fractured logic. The SOB that killed her has been arrested 24 times for burglary, illegal carry of a concealed weapon along with indecent exposure. In 1978 he was convicted of grabbing a girl in her bedroom and kissing her during a burglary and was convicted to 10 years in prison. He served 2 years out of the 10!!!!! He was arrested again in 1991 for fondling a girl under age 16 and apparently didn't serve a day!! Why are these people allowed to roam our streets? This was a man that obviously knew the system set up by the Bleeding Hearts of America and knows how to beat it. This man and MANY OTHERS roaming the streets of America today should never see the light of day again. It's the same mindset used for those using a handgun to commit a violent crime....."punish the gun...let the criminal go". The mindset of "Mr. and Mrs. handgun control" and "banish capital punishment" is seriously flawed. God Help Us All.
Jessica's Body Found in Florida
- Thread starter Randall53
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This man is the exact reason we need a better armed populace. Why was he arrested 24 times for burglary. Why didn't an armed homeowner send him home in a box? If someone breaks into a home, they shouldn't be concerned that the police may catch them; they should be worried that the homeowner will shoot them where they stand... It is the threat of lethal force that keeps your enemy at bay, not the threat of trial and prosecution.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Hard to find words that can be printed here - let's just say my haemoglobin has peaked around boiling point. 
He served 2 years out of the 10!!!!! He was arrested again in 1991 for fondling a girl under age 16 and apparently didn't serve a day!! Why are these people allowed to roam our streets?
Money.
Every single time a Judge sends one up, we have to let one go, end of story.
Missouri's prisons are currently filled, a new prison if we started today would be able to accept it's first inmate 6 years from now. Cost would be 600 million dollars up front and 60 million a year to operate, add 10% to that total per year mainly for health care cost increases for inmates. Thats the current biggest expenditure of most DOC's across the nation.
Easy rhetoric such as "let'em die or pay for thier own Dr's" is not helpfull. If we let them die the multi-million dollar lawsuit awards would be even greater than the cost of treatment.
Frankly I'm getting calluous, when people come to me complaining about inmates serving less than 15% of thier time, or ask why sex offenders are being released I tell them "Gather up all the people who agree with you, rent a bus and head to the state capital and tell them your want a $600 a year tax increase so dangerous crimminals will be held accountable for thier actions and kept off your streets."
I've yet to see one bus headed that direction
Money.
Every single time a Judge sends one up, we have to let one go, end of story.
Missouri's prisons are currently filled, a new prison if we started today would be able to accept it's first inmate 6 years from now. Cost would be 600 million dollars up front and 60 million a year to operate, add 10% to that total per year mainly for health care cost increases for inmates. Thats the current biggest expenditure of most DOC's across the nation.
Easy rhetoric such as "let'em die or pay for thier own Dr's" is not helpfull. If we let them die the multi-million dollar lawsuit awards would be even greater than the cost of treatment.
Frankly I'm getting calluous, when people come to me complaining about inmates serving less than 15% of thier time, or ask why sex offenders are being released I tell them "Gather up all the people who agree with you, rent a bus and head to the state capital and tell them your want a $600 a year tax increase so dangerous crimminals will be held accountable for thier actions and kept off your streets."
I've yet to see one bus headed that direction
ksnecktieman
Member
Our prisons should not be crowded. When one gets overfilled, take the ten percent with the longest sentences, and execute them. Sell the television rights to the highest bidder, and show it on prime time
Preacherman
Member
Blueduck is absolutely correct. Most State systems are drastically underfunded, undermanned, and unprepared to handle the long sentences currently being handed down by the courts. Only the Federal system is able to absorb the increased numbers - and this is because the Federal Bureau of Prisons is funded through Washington DC, and its funding is included in that for the Department of Justice, so that money for new prisons is easier to come by (after all, what's an extra few hundred million in a national budget running into the trillions?). Even the BOP is battling, and has had to cut overtime, holiday staffing, etc., as well as close a number of lower-security prison camps in order to provide more medium- and high-security facilities.
I totally agree with the sentiment that criminals should serve hard time, and plenty of it: but unless the public (which vocally supports this sentiment too) is prepared to pay the financial cost involved, it's not going to happen. Most States that mandated longer sentences, etc. are now (ten years or so later) suddenly re-evaluating the issue, extending parole and probation, etc. The reason is money, pure and simple - they can't afford (or are not willing to fund, which is more accurate) the costs involved.
I totally agree with the sentiment that criminals should serve hard time, and plenty of it: but unless the public (which vocally supports this sentiment too) is prepared to pay the financial cost involved, it's not going to happen. Most States that mandated longer sentences, etc. are now (ten years or so later) suddenly re-evaluating the issue, extending parole and probation, etc. The reason is money, pure and simple - they can't afford (or are not willing to fund, which is more accurate) the costs involved.
beerslurpy
member
Maybe we should have less drug offenders in prison and more people who actually did bad things.
Also, whatever happened to the death penalty? I remember when any violent felony would buy you a length of rope. If armed robbery or burglary is justification enough for me to shoot someone in my own home, then it should be justification enough for the state to do it with my tax dollars.
Also, whatever happened to the death penalty? I remember when any violent felony would buy you a length of rope. If armed robbery or burglary is justification enough for me to shoot someone in my own home, then it should be justification enough for the state to do it with my tax dollars.
Wildalaska
member
And the guy hasnt even been convicted yet.....
WildothatsrightnotagunownerhesguiltyAlaska
PS...as a felon, he should have had the right to own firearms too
WildothatsrightnotagunownerhesguiltyAlaska
PS...as a felon, he should have had the right to own firearms too
Hey ksnecktieman, I had a similar idea way back in highschool. But mine was a lotto system.
A prison has x population. When x+1* is assigned, you hold a lottery. Lifers get 200 tickets per life sentence. Everybody else gets 1 ticket per full year of remaining sentence.
Loser gets executed.
I actually presented this during my civics class, backed up by material from my psychology class that showed that a sure thing can actually be less imposing than a random effect. It's the same principle as state lottories, slots, etc. The class was taught by a liberal, who couldn't do a thing to me because the class was set up in a very structured way. Basically, if you participated, you passed.
Realistically, well, I think that legalizing drugs, treating it as a medical condition instead of a legal one would help. Use the money currently going down south to fight the 'drug war' to help build more prisons, if necessary. Redirect police to fighting more violent crime, and then transition some of them to prison guards once you have more of the violent population locked up.
Go on ahead and spend a few millions of dollars looking at:
A: What forms of correctional treatments result in the lowest rates of recidivism.
A1: What types of criminals are most likely to recommit crimes. IE: Does 'getting religion' like alot of felons seem to really result in behavior modification in a positive way? Or does following the rules, learning a trade, etc...
A2: Positive role models need to be seen at prisons.
B: What are the most common reasons for violent crime, and are there ways that we can give 'positive encouragemet' for them to not do that.
B1: I've read that alot of violent crime is based on the drug trade, what sense does it make for gangs to fight over 'turf' if they can't make any money off from it? Sure, you'd still have protection rackets and such, but that's small time stuff. And the cops could jump all over it.
C: A complex study into why some areas have so much more crime than others.
C1: Does providing unwed mothers with welfare increase the number of unwed mothers? Do their children have a greater chance of being undereducated felons?
C2: Is there a way to fix the inner-school systems to actually teach?
Actually, I think that A, B & C have already been done, but we're just unwilling to accept what needs to be done, for reasons of political correctness. IE I think that it's because of welfare & the drug war.
*I'm a little more fair now, so I'd aggregate it accross the state's population at that security level.
A prison has x population. When x+1* is assigned, you hold a lottery. Lifers get 200 tickets per life sentence. Everybody else gets 1 ticket per full year of remaining sentence.
Loser gets executed.
I actually presented this during my civics class, backed up by material from my psychology class that showed that a sure thing can actually be less imposing than a random effect. It's the same principle as state lottories, slots, etc. The class was taught by a liberal, who couldn't do a thing to me because the class was set up in a very structured way. Basically, if you participated, you passed.
Realistically, well, I think that legalizing drugs, treating it as a medical condition instead of a legal one would help. Use the money currently going down south to fight the 'drug war' to help build more prisons, if necessary. Redirect police to fighting more violent crime, and then transition some of them to prison guards once you have more of the violent population locked up.
Go on ahead and spend a few millions of dollars looking at:
A: What forms of correctional treatments result in the lowest rates of recidivism.
A1: What types of criminals are most likely to recommit crimes. IE: Does 'getting religion' like alot of felons seem to really result in behavior modification in a positive way? Or does following the rules, learning a trade, etc...
A2: Positive role models need to be seen at prisons.
B: What are the most common reasons for violent crime, and are there ways that we can give 'positive encouragemet' for them to not do that.
B1: I've read that alot of violent crime is based on the drug trade, what sense does it make for gangs to fight over 'turf' if they can't make any money off from it? Sure, you'd still have protection rackets and such, but that's small time stuff. And the cops could jump all over it.
C: A complex study into why some areas have so much more crime than others.
C1: Does providing unwed mothers with welfare increase the number of unwed mothers? Do their children have a greater chance of being undereducated felons?
C2: Is there a way to fix the inner-school systems to actually teach?
Actually, I think that A, B & C have already been done, but we're just unwilling to accept what needs to be done, for reasons of political correctness. IE I think that it's because of welfare & the drug war.
*I'm a little more fair now, so I'd aggregate it accross the state's population at that security level.
ken grant
Member
Prisons
Overcrowding can be solved,the Sheriff in Ariz. proved that!
Another way is to put the inmates on 3 shifts just like the guards and many other people in the working world.
1 shift sleeping---1 shift doing either study or working---1 shift resting.
1 bed serves 3 inmates----1 spoon serves 3 inmates.
No T.V. or weight training for anyone unless they earn it. No visitors unless the inmates earn rights to visitors .
How to earn? By studying,working or learning job skills.
Overcrowding can be solved,the Sheriff in Ariz. proved that!
Another way is to put the inmates on 3 shifts just like the guards and many other people in the working world.
1 shift sleeping---1 shift doing either study or working---1 shift resting.
1 bed serves 3 inmates----1 spoon serves 3 inmates.
No T.V. or weight training for anyone unless they earn it. No visitors unless the inmates earn rights to visitors .
How to earn? By studying,working or learning job skills.
.......I HATE when this door is opened, 'cause I WILL own the room!!! (and there will be ONLY that one criminal in there!!) NO quarter given, nor expected..... I've posted my thoughts on the thread over at www.falfiles.com on this matter, and STAND by them!!! I've mourned, and now pray for the souls of these young, innocent victims.......
Do NOT be misled - I would serve the Will and provide the Wrath of God!!!!!
Do NOT be misled - I would serve the Will and provide the Wrath of God!!!!!
Beren
Moderator Emeritus
It's too bad our nation's prisons are clogged to the gills with people serving time for drug offenses. Just think of all the extra space we'd have available for violent felons.
Beren - yep; you're right, and I agree! But it has little to do with the issue as I've addressed in my post over at www.falfiles.com/forums.........
Pilgrim
Member
The simple user drug offenders have ample opportunities to avoid prison through treatment programs, probation, diversion, etc., you name it. By the time they get prison, they have done other nasty stuff that is worthy of prison by itself, less the drug offenses.
The death penalty has become a joke in the United States. The PDRK's most recent addition to death row, Scott Peterson, will not even have an appeals attorney appointed to him for five years. All PDRK death penalty cases receive an automatic review by the state Supreme Court. It took two years to get a conviction and sentence of death for him after his arrest. There are 640 other condemned inmates on California's death row before him. Scott Peterson will probably live another twenty years before the state gets around to executing him.
Building more prisons will not solve the problem, as a few have suggested. The state will just find more people to put in prison. Now, having just watched Russell Crowe in "Gladiator", I think I have come up with a solution to prison overcrowding.
Pilgrim
Lil38
Member
That sounds like a solid plan! Was it ever implemented? If so, what became of it? If not, why not? It would seem "death-sentence" is a false term. They should call it "10-20 years to convince us not to execute."
I checked the website in my state for sexual predators and found 33 that live in my zip code. This is a small town. Some of them I think I have seen at the local convenience store (or around town somewhere.) It's getting harder and harder to sleep at night. I realize, sometimes a sex offender is a young man that has been involved with an underage girl. I think the registry fails in that sense. They should be classified more specifically (i.e. pedifile, rapist etc.) The pictures I saw on the site were not young men. So if they were involved with underage girls, I would consider them to be pedifiles. Just another reason to be aware. Also, my prayers and sympathy to Jessica's family. Sad-very,very sad2nd Amendment
member
Hey Wild, once again you deliberately miss the point. Do you do this because your views are so leftist, or simply to stir the coals?
He's admitted to it. It's over. He's been convicted before. No doubts. Should a felon be able to have a gun? Probably, once he's served his time. But this guy never served it, did he? Nor did he learn from what he did serve. I really do hope you do this stuff just to get a rise out of people.
As for prison populations: End the Wo(some)Drugs, streamline death penalty procedures, eliminate excessive budgetary items like cable TV and other amenities, etc. The answer is not always spending more money. it's usually common sense and spending less.
As for this specific fool, it would be nice if something happened to him while he is awaiting sentencing.
He's admitted to it. It's over. He's been convicted before. No doubts. Should a felon be able to have a gun? Probably, once he's served his time. But this guy never served it, did he? Nor did he learn from what he did serve. I really do hope you do this stuff just to get a rise out of people.
As for prison populations: End the Wo(some)Drugs, streamline death penalty procedures, eliminate excessive budgetary items like cable TV and other amenities, etc. The answer is not always spending more money. it's usually common sense and spending less.
As for this specific fool, it would be nice if something happened to him while he is awaiting sentencing.
Really must agree with Pilgrim on the Drug offenders not overcrowding the prison system.
Personally from 7 years of working with offenders I really can't see even a total legallization program as affecting prison overcrowding in any positive way. Their are some really interesting studies out now showing that most offenders begin commiting crimes, enter the crimminal culture, THEN start using drugs, as opposed to the old get on drugs and you'll become a crimminal schools of thought.
Most offenders I've delt with do have drug problems, but the idea that there are "real" crimminals and "drug offenders" really doesn't pan out from what I've seen. You look at the rap sheet of a guy you have on for possesion of a controlled substance and 95% of the time he also has arrest for burglaries, unlawful use of weapons, Fraud, DWI's, assualts etc. You tend to see a lot of "real crimminals" who end up getting convicted of drug offenses because they are very easy to prove in front of a court as opposed to an assualt or burglary charge. Coke found in pocket, lab says it's coke, easy case for the DA and jury to figure out.
Even if you give away free drugs to all who ask, long term heavy use of meth,coke,crack,opiates will leave most people unable to work or be productive member of society. Even though they don't look like it even meth heads need to eat, have clothes, and a place to live. They also still want toys such as CD's, Stereos, Cars, (guns!)etc.. Give them all the drugs they want they still need to produce some type of income to buy the other things they need/want. Unable to work for living they will inevitiably turn to crime to either steal these items or the money to obtain them.
You also have the general problem of dealing with individuals on or damaged by drugs in the community whether they are legal or not. Ask anyone who has been unlucky enough to have a crack house or people making meth move into the neighborhood
Oh well, I sure don't have all the answers and even if I did, I don't have the power to implement them. Maybe for the best as ksnecktieman's idea does have some merit
Personally from 7 years of working with offenders I really can't see even a total legallization program as affecting prison overcrowding in any positive way. Their are some really interesting studies out now showing that most offenders begin commiting crimes, enter the crimminal culture, THEN start using drugs, as opposed to the old get on drugs and you'll become a crimminal schools of thought.
Most offenders I've delt with do have drug problems, but the idea that there are "real" crimminals and "drug offenders" really doesn't pan out from what I've seen. You look at the rap sheet of a guy you have on for possesion of a controlled substance and 95% of the time he also has arrest for burglaries, unlawful use of weapons, Fraud, DWI's, assualts etc. You tend to see a lot of "real crimminals" who end up getting convicted of drug offenses because they are very easy to prove in front of a court as opposed to an assualt or burglary charge. Coke found in pocket, lab says it's coke, easy case for the DA and jury to figure out.
Even if you give away free drugs to all who ask, long term heavy use of meth,coke,crack,opiates will leave most people unable to work or be productive member of society. Even though they don't look like it even meth heads need to eat, have clothes, and a place to live. They also still want toys such as CD's, Stereos, Cars, (guns!)etc.. Give them all the drugs they want they still need to produce some type of income to buy the other things they need/want. Unable to work for living they will inevitiably turn to crime to either steal these items or the money to obtain them.
You also have the general problem of dealing with individuals on or damaged by drugs in the community whether they are legal or not. Ask anyone who has been unlucky enough to have a crack house or people making meth move into the neighborhood
Oh well, I sure don't have all the answers and even if I did, I don't have the power to implement them. Maybe for the best as ksnecktieman's idea does have some merit
Wildalaska
member
No actually I do it because I am a rational normal American citizen who beleives in the rule of law and the US constituion, and I dont pick and chosse what I like (sort of like the American party picks and chooses). Unfortunately for you pick and choose fellas, there is an inconveneint rule of American Law known as innocnet till proven guilty.
And? Admission equals guilt under our laws? And we convict people simply because they ahve been convicted before? Do we live in the same country?
Hey suppose the cops snathced this dirtbag up and BEAT a confession out of him....many people on this Board wouldnt put that past the cops would they?
Hey great, IF and WHEN , this guy is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt AND IF AND WHEN he gets out, let him have a gun right.???
No actually I do it to distance myself from hypocrisy
WildpsbelowAlaska
The above post is not desinged to support the dirtbag at issue, but rather, to point out that EVERYONE deserves to be tried and convicted before being punished.
Uhhh... so if some guy is involved with a 15 year old girl (16 is age of consent in PA, anyway, though in some states it's as low as 14 or as high as 18) who looks considerably older (hell, I know a couple of girls that are 12 and look 21) and lies about her age, he's a pedophile?
Sheeeesh.
I wish that would work. I think a couple decades ago some state actually tried chemically sterilizing some sex offenders. Study showed that all that did is make them more likely to kill, torture, maim, etc., women, when they were unable to rape them the "usual" way.
And this is different from alcohol how?
possenti
Member
Too bad that John Evander Couey will be treated much better than Terri Schiavo...
It would be nice to see HIM starved to death (after he's found guilty, of course) - and have Terri "rehabilitated".
It would be nice to see HIM starved to death (after he's found guilty, of course) - and have Terri "rehabilitated".
I understand the innocent until proven guilty part of the constitution, but quoting Reuters news: "Police said he admitted on Friday to abducting and killing Lunsford and directed them to the body." The body was buried within 150 yards of her home and hundreds of people have been searching for three weeks, with police leading an intense search of the area within a mile of her house. He confessed AND knew where the body was....If a person confesses to a crime and knows intimate details of the crime (location of body above all...) I feel this proves guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. Excuse me, but what's the difference at this point of pleading guilt when questioned and pleading guilt at a hearing? By pleading guilt at a hearing don't we go straight to sentencing and bypass the trial? Maybe that's what this scumbag will do...if some lawyer doesn't talk him into retracting his confession.
The police interviewed every registered sex offender in Citrus County it was reported. If they had simply wanted a confession from anybody, I'm sure they could have "BEAT a confession" out of any one of them couldn't they? But they didn't. It was reported that he agreed to a polygraph and he told the police not to tell him the results....he already knew what they were. He then "apologized" for taking up so much of the investigators time.
I hope (IF he's found guilty, Wildalaska) they put him in a cell with Big Bubba......and Big Bubba pimps him out after he's tired of him.
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